laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

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Addoow
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Addoow »

It differs in form. Yet the principle of dacwa is what matters, not the form so long as it does not contradict the guidelines put forth by Allah and his nabi saws
The Modern jihad also differs in form from the jihad of rasuulullah and his sahaba.case closed.
That doesn't answer anythin
ibn baaz RA
What has authentically been reported from the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam confirms the fact that there is much latitude with respect to the number of raka'aat to be performed in the night prayer, and that there is no definite number
Similarly, prove to us that Dhikr is only individual and silent
You can remember allah(dhirk) in many forms like silent dhikr,from the noble quran
"واذكر ربك في نفسك تضرعا وخيفة ودون الجهر من القول بالغدو والآصال ولا تكن من الغافلين"

"Tafseer of Al-Araaf (7:205)
“And remember your Lord by your tongue and within yourself, humbly and with fear without loudness in words in the mornings, and in the afternoons and be not of those who are neglectful.” (Al-Ar’aaf 205)"

cannot be in a group and in a loud voice
I have never rejected group gatherings of dhirk like muhaadaro,wacdi or listening to the tafsiir of the quran by a sheikh in a mosque,all can be dhirk in a gathering.

The main consensus among the ulema is that allah should only be worshipped as stated by him,his prophet and the four khulafaa u raashidoon. by the hadith of the prophet which is considered as "hasan" "If there was a prophet after me, then it would be Omar"

so,If i decide to recite "adkaaru sabah" in the afternoon and insist on it,then it becomes bidah because the prophet ordered us to recite adkaaru sabah in the morning notin the afternoon which has its own adkaar.
My objection to sufi type dhirk with its dancing still remains.The problem with bidah is that it is almost impossible to tell its doer inuu iska dhaafo waayo wuxuu aaminsanyahay iney saxyihiin.subhanalah.


ilahey ha hanuuniyu suufida bidciyiinta.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by melo »

I have never rejected group gatherings of dhirk like muhaadaro,wacdi or listening to the tafsiir of the quran by a sheikh in a mosque,all can be dhirk in a gathering.

The main consensus among the ulema is that allah should only be worshipped as stated by him,his prophet and the four khulafaa u raashidoon. by the hadith of the prophet which is considered as "hasan" "If there was a prophet after me, then it would be Omar"

so,If i decide to recite "adkaaru sabah" in the afternoon and insist on it,then it becomes bidah because the prophet ordered us to recite adkaaru sabah in the morning notin the afternoon which has its own adkaar.
My objection to sufi type dhirk with its dancing still remains.The problem with bidah is that it is almost impossible to tell its doer inuu iska dhaafo waayo wuxuu aaminsanyahay iney saxyihiin.subhanalah.
What has authentically been reported from the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam confirms the fact that there is much latitude with respect to the number of raka'aat to be performed in the night prayer, and that there is no definite number
With all due respect to Sheikh Ibn baaz, where did he derive this from? Did the prophet saws say that Tarawih was indefinite? I never heard it. He certainly did not pray more than 11 rakah. Unless the sheekh is saying is inferring that because the nabi saws did not restrict tarawih to x amount of rakah, you can pray as much as you want? If this is the case, then that makes my entire point.

Anyways, akhi addow, can you find out what the sheekh means about the prophet not giving a definite number, and then we can proceed from there.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

Melo about the tarawix, most scholars differentiate between witr which they say can't pass 11 rakats and tarawix. The hadith of aishia where she says the prophet (pbuh) did not pray more than 11 rakats they understand it as witr only. The tarawix with them is just regular sunah prayers that has no number. I agree with them. Shouldn't a person be able to offer how many salat sunah he wants? Is reported imam Ahmed used to offer 300 rakats a day.

Sh Albani disagrees though and says tarawix is only 11.

All this adds to the point you were making. If there is a root for it in the sharia how can it be considered bidca?
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by melo »

Alchemist wrote:Melo about the tarawix, most scholars differentiate between witr which they say can't pass 11 rakats and tarawix. The hadith of aishia where she says the prophet (pbuh) did not pray more than 11 rakats they understand it as witr only. The tarawix with them is just regular sunah prayers that has no number. I agree with them. Shouldn't a person be able to offer how many salat sunah he wants? Is reported imam Ahmed used to offer 300 rakats a day.

Sh Albani disagrees though and says tarawix is only 11.

All this adds to the point you were making. If there is a root for it in the sharia how can it be considered bidca?
Jazakallahu khayran Alchemist for that explanation :up:

What is your position on this whole issue in summary?
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

melo wrote:
Alchemist wrote:Melo about the tarawix, most scholars differentiate between witr which they say can't pass 11 rakats and tarawix. The hadith of aishia where she says the prophet (pbuh) did not pray more than 11 rakats they understand it as witr only. The tarawix with them is just regular sunah prayers that has no number. I agree with them. Shouldn't a person be able to offer how many salat sunah he wants? Is reported imam Ahmed used to offer 300 rakats a day.

Sh Albani disagrees though and says tarawix is only 11.

All this adds to the point you were making. If there is a root for it in the sharia how can it be considered bidca?
Jazakallahu khayran Alchemist for that explanation :up:

What is your position on this whole issue in summary?
In my humble opinion I think we need to go back to the scholars of this ummah like imam Ahmed, Abu Hanifa, Malik,shafi and the salaf in general for all issues. If an action was acceptable with even one of them or their schools of thought than it shouldn't be called bidca. That doesn't mean the scholars shouldn't discuss/ debate the issue but we shouldnt be haste on calling it a bidca since many Muslims from ahlu sunah practice it.

I personally don't see anything wrong with a bunch of believers coming together to recite quran or dhikir together at once since it has root in the sharia, of course there must be no xaram involved. This is the view of the great imam Nawawi.

One thing I am against for sure is these neo salafis who claim to follow the salaf but go against them in majority of the issues.
I can list many times where popular salafi scholars of today have went against the four madhabs and what's even worse people are ridiculed for following the agreement of the four imams .
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by melo »

You are a wise man Sheikh Alchemist :up: may allah swt protect you. Inshallah, you go on to became an caalim and preach the true essence of Salafism, which from rejecting our traditional schools rather affirmed them. What i find very sad is when Somalis reject the shaafici madhab, yet do not realise that the great Salafi imams of the past century (eg Sheikh Ibn Baaz, Sh ibn Cuthaymiin,Sh Bakr Abu Zayd,Sh Ibn Jibriin etc- May allah swt bless all of them) were all Hanbalis (Bakr abu zayd and uthameen being very strong hanbalis), and had no problem in identifying themselves as Hanbalis. In fact, the hanbali imams of the past even had no problem making poetry in praise of the Hanbali Madhab. Yet we see Some somalis reject the shaaficism for some strange reason. I find this fairly sad, and i hope it starts to change soon inshallah.

I think Somali salafis rely too heavily on the works of Sheikh Albani ra, Imam Shawkani ra and Imam San'ani RA. With all due respect to these 3 culemaa, I think i'll take Imam nawawi, Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qudamah, Imam suyuti etc works on how fiqh should be taught.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

Melo you wouldnt want to meet me couple of years ago, i was the most hardcore salafi, no mabdhabi guy out there. I started to change after my travel to Saudi. In Toronto the somali Shuyk at the time used to teach us night and day how following a madhab was wrong. They would mock followers of madhab especially the shafis. They would often praise Sh Bin Baz, Uthymen and ibn Jibreen on their salafiya but when it came to fiqh they would blind follow Albani to the extreme. After i got to Saudi i noticed how the country had a system. You couldnt become a mufti in Saudi unless you were a hanbali. Every muslim country in the world is like that which is understandable because you dont want chaos. Somalis are the only people who are different but than again chaos is our middle name. I would attend the classes of sh Ibn Jibreen and Fawzaan and they would teach hanbli books or say this is according to our madhab. The somali students would drop the shafi books and pick up hanbali knowledge without even knowing it. They would return to Somalia and force the people on opinions of the hanbali madhab or that of no madhab which is really following of Sh Albani. I dont mind at all because sh Albani was one of the biggest scholars of our time but my issue with them is stopping people from following the rightly guided scholars and forcing them to follow one of their choice. In the end 99% of the muslim population are followers. Your either following a madhab, a local shiek or shiek Google. :mrgreen:

There in Saudi i found couple of Somali students who were all also fed up. Alxamdulillah these brothers were knowledgeable in the deen and they had correct aqeedah. They started teaching me all shafi manuals every shafi student should know. Alxamdulillah today a lot of somali salafi shieks are understanding that Somalia has been shafi for a thousand years just like egypt, Syria, Yemen etc and you couldnt rule a country with different systems.

The way some salafis look at a madhab is totally wrong. When they think of a madhab the first thing that comes to their mind is blind following other than the prophet(pbuh).

A madhab is a like an equation you would use to derive at a solution using certain principles. Every madhab has principles. When you look at the evidence (quran and sunah) you would apply them using those principles.

The funny thing is today a lot of those shieks who used to mock the shafi books are teaching them now. You can find Sh shabili, sh bashir and many more salafi shieks saying how they are shafiis in tapes and videos. A person can be a salafi and follow a madhab. The Sahaba even had madhabs of their own. They each had students who would take from them using their principles.

Somalis are generally weak, even in the deen their weak. They are the ones who threw away their madhab like is nothing the most but alxamdulillah today they are returning slowly. The hype of the 90s is dying down.

The madhab of imam shafii probably has the most books written on it and the most scholars. Some of the scholars of that madhab are: Ibn Khazuma the hadith scholar, Imam Bayhaqi, Baqawi, Sayuuti, Nawawi, Ibn Salax, Al hafid ibn Hajar, Imam Dahabi, Ibn Kathir. Ibn Mundir.

Sh Albani in the later years of his life was asked by a bunch of students in Azhar what madhab they should learn. he said the shafii madhab.

Sh Ahmed Shakir was reported to say the same thing.

Imam Ahmed was asked "what if you cant find something in the quran and sunnah"? he said "i will take the opinion of my teacher shafi"....

This in no way means following the madhab in ever single issue of course. This is what they used to scare people away.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

Melo your right also about Somali salafis relying too much on hadith scholars for fiqh. Throughout islamic history all students of knowledge would go to hadith scholars when they wanted to learn hadith and fiqh scholars for fiqh but today everything has become upside down. :down:

If i want to learn hadith i would read the most knowledgeable of hadith in our times and god knows best which is sh Albani but for fiqh i would go to fiqh scholars.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by melo »

You are a wise man Alchemist. Indeed, the dominance of the hanbali madhab in saudi arabia makes the Somali stance look very stupid. I havent heard somali sheikhs say they are shaafici, but i know both Sheekh shible and Xasaan Xuseen have covered Shaafici fiqh material. Nice to see.
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

Melo do you know sh Albani's book on Niqab is banned in Saudi till this day? The hanbali madhab niqab is wajib. This is the opinion of all the known scholars in Saudi, bin baz, fawzaan you name it. Sh Albani in that book says is sunnah. They praise sh Albani very much but on that issue they say the book will bring fitnah to our society. I have heard Sh Shabili and i heard sh Xasaan saying about Somalia, if there was an issue of dispute they should go through shafi books for hukum. Is a trend that is going on now a day. :lol:
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by melo »

Alchemist wrote:Melo do you know sh Albani's book on Niqab is banned in Saudi till this day? The hanbali madhab niqab is wajib. This is the opinion of all the known scholars in Saudi, bin baz, fawzaan you name it. Sh Albani in that book says is sunnah. They praise sh Albani very much but on that issue they say the book will bring fitnah to our society. I have heard Sh Shabili and i heard sh Xasaan saying about Somalia, if there was an issue of dispute they should go through shafi books for hukum. Is a trend that is going on now a day. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: did not know what. was that ban pushed by the sheikhs or culemaa? Cause didnt they expel the late shaykh aun from Saudi?

Its a nice trend to see our sheikhs talking like thi :up: . i am waiting for xasaan xuseens cousin to jump on board.. or has he already?
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Alchemist »

melo wrote:
Alchemist wrote:Melo do you know sh Albani's book on Niqab is banned in Saudi till this day? The hanbali madhab niqab is wajib. This is the opinion of all the known scholars in Saudi, bin baz, fawzaan you name it. Sh Albani in that book says is sunnah. They praise sh Albani very much but on that issue they say the book will bring fitnah to our society. I have heard Sh Shabili and i heard sh Xasaan saying about Somalia, if there was an issue of dispute they should go through shafi books for hukum. Is a trend that is going on now a day. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: did not know what. was that ban pushed by the sheikhs or culemaa? Cause didnt they expel the late shaykh aun from Saudi?

Its a nice trend to see our sheikhs talking like thi :up: . i am waiting for xasaan xuseens cousin to jump on board.. or has he already?
I am guessing the sheiks pushed it because is a deen issue. and yes in the end the Sheik was expelled from the country but the major scholars were against it. they defended him very much. This is nothing most scholars go through this type of stuff. Sheik islam died in prison because some of the other culema caused the king to turn against him.
Imam Nawawi was expelled from a city. This is the sunnah of the scholars to go through hardships. Sh Albani and Bin Baz differed on a lot of issues when it came to fiqh but this is to be expected.

Some of the more known issues are: Ruling on the one who abandons prayer. Sh bin Baz says Kafir, sh Albani says otherwise. Cutting of the beard when it passes hand span, sh Albani says you should trim it, she Bin baz no. Touching of the muzhaf(quran) without wudu, all the four madhabs bin baz and saudi scholars say haram. Sh Albani and few of the salafi from the past say you dont need wudu. Putting the hand on your chest after ruku hanbali madhab and the view of the hanbali madhab, sh albani says bidca. Women wearing gold: sh Albani says not allowed, all scholars differed with him on this issue. Salat tarawix. too many to list.

Sh Umal lol i havent heard anything from him yet. I am in Nairobi so i should hear something soon :mrgreen:
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Re: laa ilaaha illah huwa, laysa ilaah ghayruka

Post by Addoow »

Anyways, akhi addow, can you find out what the sheekh means about the prophet not giving a definite number, and then we can proceed from there.
When the prophet SCW was asked about salatul layl,he didnt give a definite number but said"mathnaa,mathnaa" "pray in pairs,in pairs".which means you can pray 100 rakah every night and finish it with 1 ,3,5 or 7 witr given that you can afford the strenght to perform it.because it not wajib but sunnah.
Tarawih is a sunnah muakadah(highly recommended) and has many great ajar but not compulsory.The prophet SCW Often used to pray 11 rakah and it has also been reported that he prayed 13 thus there was some relaxation in the number of salatul tarawiih.
Allah knows best.
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