Muslims for Progressive Values

[union]

I am a believer in progressive values. I don't know why Somalis become pretentious and try to beat each other in terms of who could seem the most "conservative" or unreasonable when it comes to any issue not concerning them but if we must look at it, ALL the freedoms we enjoy in Western society from the right to worship our faith, the right of our mothers to cover their heads, the right to be equal under the law even though we are racial minorities, the right to speak, and vote, and lobby, etc all stem from progressive movements. Just as some of you say you spit on the ground when you see homosexuals on the street, so too are there people who spit on the ground and are livid throughout the day on seeing your black skin in their neighborhood or your Muslim identity in their towns. The value in progressive movement is that neither you have anything to do about the right of individual to be who they are and nor do they have anything to do with your own right to be who you are. Let's not try to paint progressive values in negative light now as it stands in our Western homes because abolition of slavery was considered the most radical idea at one point, and progressive fighters took it on. Civil rights for ethnic minorities was considered the most radical of ideas at one point and progressive fighters took it on. The right of us to sit in the same classroom as whites was considered the most radical of ideas and progressive fighters took it on. And now most progressive activisim is towards economic justice and even if they would go and champion homosexuality and abortion, what is it to you? Let live and live life. The limits to freedoms in these societies doesn't stop at your doorstep, rather it will move beyond you as swiftly as it came to you.

[TheblueNwhite]

I will rather have radical Zionist heterosexual couple as neighbours than a gay couple. I might be able to change the zionist state of mind through dialogue, 50/50 toss I predict, but I can't change a faggot's mind, 100% certain I can't.
Basically, faggots are messing with nature. I mean what's next? animals and humans getting married and asking for spousal rights?

The buck needs to stop somewhere.

[union]

I will rather have radical Zionist heterosexual couple as neighbours than a gay couple. I might be able to change the zionist state of mind through dialogue, 50/50 toss I predict, but I can't change a faggot's mind, 100% certain I can't.
Basically, faggots are messing with nature. I mean what's next? animals and humans getting married and asking for spousal rights?

The buck needs to stop somewhere.

I am confused. Aren’t you of the opinion that homosexuality is a choice? Why wouldn’t you be able to “fix” their problem then?

[Voltage]

Homosexuality isnt something people choose. It is with them from a very early age. And it is mostly because of Feminist eviroment or upringing without a real father or a man in their life as they grow up. Nobody forces themselves to be gay, there are even many who hide it for fear of beign outcast in their families or being seen as unislamic, thus they force themselves to be the best muslim in the mosque etc etc. But they will always have those gay feelings.

With that said. i do not support Homosexuality in Somalia. Im pretty radical in many things (IF) it is beneficial for Society. But homosexuality isnt.

However the other aspects Union mention i support 100%. These backward losers who are talking shit like abdisamad are two faced bitches. Somalis only know 2 things Islam & Qabil.

The best shiekh in the Somali Mosque is either Qabilist, or is active in some way in Qabil activities.

There was a somali sheikh who led a Somali Mosque in my old hometown, he was doing the 5 salats in theMosque. The guy was from Waqooyi like me. He was a fierce Somaliland supporter, yet a well known shiekh aroudn Sweden because he also went on Tabliq travels.

He hated reunification with southerners even when they are muslim & Somali like him. Yet he had the f-king audacity to preach about Palestine &Iraq & Afghanistan under occupation of Gaalo. Just because hes fellow arab shieks were sitting next to him.

The older Somali generation are failures,lowlive scum who carry the mentality of a sheep with an arab herder. They dont know jack shit, they only know Hebel iyo hebel, but they fail at Education,Assimilation,Community building and every f-king other important aspect of what it means to be PRODUCTIVE & USEFUL.

Whenever they want to sway youth from drugs, they talk about prophets or a quran verse, like the children will f-king identify with a quran verse when they are killing eachother on the street,chewing khat, doing drugs.

Asomali shiekh will preach in the friday prayer about Gaalo this and gaalo that and at the end of the Month he will ask you to help him translate for him so that he can get his welfare money from the social office.

Fuck these losers that are against Reform,Secularism,development. They are bunch of backward qabil infested losers that want to dictate the broad minded younger generation. They have failed & they are now trying to take you down with them.

I end my rant now, before i f-king burst a bicep.

[Beenaale_No1]

I am a believer in progressive values. I don't know why Somalis become pretentious and try to beat each other in terms of who could seem the most "conservative" or unreasonable when it comes to any issue not concerning them but if we must look at it, ALL the freedoms we enjoy in Western society from the right to worship our faith, the right of our mothers to cover their heads, the right to be equal under the law even though we are racial minorities, the right to speak, and vote, and lobby, etc all stem from progressive movements. Just as some of you say you spit on the ground when you see homosexuals on the street, so too are there people who spit on the ground and are livid throughout the day on seeing your black skin in their neighborhood or your Muslim identity in their towns. The value in progressive movement is that neither you have anything to do about the right of individual to be who they are and nor do they have anything to do with your own right to be who you are. Let's not try to paint progressive values in negative light now as it stands in our Western homes because abolition of slavery was considered the most radical idea at one point, and progressive fighters took it on. Civil rights for ethnic minorities was considered the most radical of ideas at one point and progressive fighters took it on. The right of us to sit in the same classroom as whites was considered the most radical of ideas and progressive fighters took it on. And now most progressive activisim is towards economic justice and even if they would go and champion homosexuality and abortion, what is it to you? Let live and live life. The limits to freedoms in these societies doesn't stop at your doorstep, rather it will move beyond you as swiftly as it came to you.

Still, I think a distinction has to be made between a secular Western society and a faith like Islam. Islam is a complete way of life and you are either a subscriber to it or a detractor of it. You cannot try to mold it to whatever whims and desires you have. Islam grants many rights to humanity and it is true oftentimes individuals have abused the name of the faith for political humanly purposes much as the same as the papal clergy had done in medieval Europe but let's not abuse the nature of the faith by likening it to clay molding it however suits us.

Very well put. This is a balanced objective opinion.

[UlteriorMotive]

Union yes I'm serious. Ever human rights document in the world from the european convention to the african charter is based on the universal declaration on human rights. This declaration was made in 1948 in response to WWII. What's so funny about that?

Perhaps you can enlighten me and your two cheerleaders as I'm sure they don't quite know why they're laughing.

So there was no concept of human rights before 1948? The absurdity of your belief is what drove people to laughter.

I did not say that.

I said the rights included in human rights documents can be traced back the aftermath of world war II.

And those rights were the result of bargaining between the allied powers.

Therefore, the human rights that seem to be natural to you might not have become so. I am merely pointing out the relativity of western morals which are borne out of factors peculiar to them as I initially stated.

WTF are you talking about human rights being invented to for mind control. Are you deliberately rephrasing my statements for comic relief or is your comprehension that bad?

[TheblueNwhite]

Union

I don't want to fix them, I don't think I have that capability afforded to me anyways, I just don't want them adopting children or pro creating.

I don't care what gays do in their bedroom, I just wish they keep it there.

[union]

So there was no concept of human rights before 1948? The absurdity of your belief is what drove people to laughter.

I did not say that.

I said the rights included in human rights documents can be traced back the aftermath of world war II.

And those rights were the result of bargaining between the allied powers.

Therefore, the human rights that seem to be natural to you might not have become so. I am merely pointing out the relativity of western morals which are borne out of factors peculiar to them as I initially stated.

WTF are you talking about human rights being invented to for mind control. Are you deliberately rephrasing my statements for comic relief or is your comprehension that bad?

My friend, the concept of human rights grew out of a set of circumstances peculiar to Europe, namely WWII

The rights you enjoy now although good are the result of what the allied powers felt fit for you to have. Again how does it feel to have the west think for you?

[UlteriorMotive]

Perhaps accident and coeus can enlighten me?

No?

Next time keep your mouth shut when grown folk are talking.

Though it was your chance to act intellectual by laughing on cue and acting like you're in on the joke huh?



Nacasiin

[union]

Perhaps accident and coeus can enlighten me?

No?

Next time keep your mouth shut when grown folk are talking.

Though it was your chance to act intellectual by laughing on cue and acting like you're in on the joke huh?



Nacasiin

[UlteriorMotive]

Not at all sxb.

You got caught out (happens to the best of us) but them two imbeciles tried to jump on your bandwagon.

Dumper and dumper as dr yalaxoow says

[union]

Ok guys, don’t laugh at UlteriorMotives idiotic comments. He’s obviously a sensitive soul.

[melo]

Melo,
Utopia aside, what we have today is a world that is run through man made laws. As a muslim I have no problem in accepting these laws even if they are contradictory to my faith.

Europe (at least the northern part) have said NO to faith based laws from the day when Martin Luther nailed his thesis; they will not change their laws because some muslims live in their countries. If they create untolerant laws, muslims will be the first to be targeted; thus, my friend religious tolerance protects muslims.

And I guess you and I are enjoying the fruits of liberal laws.

Saaxib, there is a difference between accepting the laws of the lands as we all do, and then inherently believing these laws are superior to that of Islam. Secondly, you are naive and foolish to believe that Muslims aren't being targetted. There is a growing right wing movement in Europe, that are attempting to curb immigration from Muslim countries and to europeify their citizens ie separate them from aspects of Islam that they deem problematic. It is clear as night and day, and has been documented in dozens of publications.

Liberalism pretends to be free, but the minute you attack the actual fundamentals this system is based on, you are shunned as radical. They don't need to call the police to shut you up these days. Just call someone a fundamentalist, jihaadi, terrorist, and he is shunned from the public discourse completely. That is the "freedom" you talk about. At least a Christian theocracy would not feign impartiality. They would tell you like it is. Liberal countries however are showing that "free speech" isn't free at all.

[melo]

I don't care for homosexuals. I have no problem with them. But gays are the least of our worries anyway. Look at the bigger picture.

As Abdisamad said, lakum dinakum waliya deen. People want to impose their version of Islam on people. I don't care whether someone is Shia, Christian, Druze, Jews, Atheist, Agnostic etc. as long as they dont bash deenta, they can live in our country peacefully and have the right to be protected. If they start spreading propaganda and insults diinta then they shall be dealt with according to the law i.e. hate speech.

You mofos are so desperate to tell people how to run their lives, how to dress, what to do etc. as if you hypocrites have the moral high ground on anything. I will NEVER accept some Somali towelhead dhagacs ass licker telling me to live according to his version of Islam.

You guys don't know the word dulqaad. Everything waa qasab, otherwise I'll be labelled Kaafir No wonder we are in a mess.

Dont agree with us = GAAL BAA TAHAY OMGZ

"Their version of Islam"

In which version of Islam is secularism acceptable? Homosexual rights are given?

Islam isn't a matter of personal whims and desire. There is an entire tradition, rooted in the Quran and Sunnah. There is an Ijmaac in Sunni Islam and Shia Islam through out the ages that Islam has to be the basis of governance. Likewise, there is an Ijmaac through out the ages that Homosexuals who promote their activity or who are caught in the act, are executed. This again is all explicitly rooted in the Quran and Sunnah.

Why is it that in Philosophy physics, anthorpolocy, biology etc to be listened to, you have to be an expert in the field, but as far as Islam goes, any random faarax can come up with the most focked up ideas and then say "its my opinion'? Why is Islam degraded to a point where its turns into a battle of whims and desires?

There are issues that are known by necessity of faith. Islam's position on secularism and homosexuality are but one of those two. There can be no difference of opinion on these matters.

[Lamagoodle]

naive and foolish to believe that Muslims aren't being targetted. There is a growing right wing movement in Europe, that are attempting to curb immigration from Muslim countries and to europeify their citizens ie separate them from aspects of Islam that they deem problematic. It is clear as night and day, and has been documented in dozens of publications.

Liberalism pretends to be free, but the minute you attack the actual fundamentals this system is based on, you are shunned as radical. They don't need to call the police to shut you up these days. Just call someone a fundamentalist, jihaadi, terrorist, and he is shunned from the public discourse completely. That is the "freedom" you talk about. At least a Christian theocracy would not feign impartiality. They would tell you like it is. Liberal countries however are showing that "free speech" isn't free at all.

Melo, Indeed muslims are being targetted; freedom of speech is being curtailed and there an atmosphere of hatred towards minorities. But, will hating their values make the situation better? Don't give undue credit to the west; much of the progressive values are universal and are actually within the framework of islamic teachings.

I don't know why you jump to homosexuality! Why do we care who f... who as long as we are practising our religion; As Martin Luther King mentioned; [Injustice Anywhere is a Threat to Justice Everywhere”]; so it is futile if you want to have justice for muslims and not for homosexuals, whores and other minorities.

If we look at the history of islam, it was the most tolerant faith on earth. Islam has also brought arts, science and intellectual thinking to the world. But, what is happening today ? A few sick individuals who have been indoctrined in a discourse of hate and massmurder have hijacked our religion. What has turned islam from being viewed as the most tolerant into a religion characterised by bigots who want to commit henious acts?

Liberals are angry today; conservations and cultural bigots are claiming that it is due to liberalism that there are so many muslims in the West; They are angry because some of the liberal and tolerant laws/regulations/modes are abused. It is easy to find examples; NY; London, Madrid, Van Gogh etc. They are getting the blame! While the majority of muslims are law abiding and good citizens there are a few that have hijacked our religion and we should fight them and the sick ideology that they follow.

A case in point the Norwegian massacre; the dude was taking on the liberal policies.
Without liberals and progressive values, we have conservatives [bread ]intolerance[/b]

Finally, I think we differ on the notion of liberalism; There is economic liberalism (Smith/David Hume) and political/social liberalism; Francis Bacon, Isiah Berlin were some of th comtemporaries; while you have classical(enlightment) liberalism which concerned detaching state/personal affairs from the grip of the church; Voltaire (who ironically owned a slave trade), Rossou , Mostesque etc.