SomaliNet Forums

Based wrote:

kadarre wrote:So its not his fault that he destroyed a democratic system and set up the Supreme Revolutionary council. The man would have wiped half of Somalia out if it meant he would stay in Power. I repeat he tried to retake Mogadishu twice.
He left us more disunited than he came in.

You went from arguing "How could he let the Somalis down? How could he lose against rebel groups? " to this. It's hard to debate with a guy who constantly shifts his position.

Like I said before, the question is not why didn't he leave, but rather why didn't the "victors" do anything better after he did. Somalia was in tact the day MSB was forced out of power. Dictators far worse than he have been forced from power by rebels who subsequently put into place the changes they fought for. The entire communist world experienced regime change following the collapse of the USSR, yet every nation but Somalia managed to replace their old socialist governments without much upheaval. Instead, our rebels fighting for "democracy" and "justice" managed to turn what was once a preeminent African power into the world's first and only failed state.

That is the inescapable, irrefutable truth.

My problem is that he abolished a system to leave us in the end without one. Where was the SRC while the soviets never lost grip in Russia untill it dissolved. Gorbachev passed the torch on to Yeltsin .You see the how the administration of Tunisia went. Although the guy was a dictator the transition of power went slowly and not so bloody. He fled and his Government set up a new one. The army looked after Tunisia while the red berets shot at the people whom they were suppose to protect. Siad could have done all of that and retired in Mogadishu. He chose to be ousted by the gun and flee to the other side of the continent. The Mogadishu stadium massacre and many other heinous crimes that only encouraged your average Somali to topple the Government.

Dont forget that the rebel sought help from non Somalis and they got it. Where was this unity Siad wanted for Somalis? Where was the (Hantiwadaag) Socialism?

Daiman? Somalis should shun Siad Barre. Siad Barre has done the most disgusting thing. He abolished a Government and then fled the Country leaving us naked to be raped by Ethiopians and even Kenyans today. While our shores are being polluted.Truly we never have seen a worse Dictator than Siyad Barre.

Siyad left the country in a far worse state than when he took over. The work of SYL and others were undone by Siad. May my generation make Somalia successful again. funny thing is that he was against corruption. The Irony.

Siyaad Barre was a military man, and military men make terrible politicians. Whether he was a good leader or not there is evidence he was, but he was inflexible and refused to change with the times, and thought he could just beat all the opposition into submission through force. He turned everyone against him with his ham-handed tactics, which is why he was a bad politician. A good politician slides the knife in with a smile and a hug, he doesn't shout down the hallway that he's going to stab everybody.

James Dahl wrote:Siyaad Barre was a military man, and military men at times make the worst of politicians. Whether he was a good leader or not there is evidence he was, but he was inflexible and refused to change with the times, and thought he could just beat all the opposition into submission through force. He turned everyone against him with his ham-handed tactics, which is why he was a bad politician. A good politician slides the knife in with a smile and a hug, he doesn't shout down the hallway that he's going to stab everybody.

is there any other topic you talk about luis, tell us how is havana and how is life there and how about the girls are they nice

The cuban girls are very nice and they love men with blue eyes and white skin.


Perhaps you can travel to Cuba some day,Cuba is a beautiful island

Waryaa Luis, Punto, How is El Salvador?

I have never been in El Salvador.

Peru is far from El Salvador.

I live in Lima,capital of the country of Peru.

kadarre wrote: My problem is that he abolished a system to leave us in the end without one. Where was the SRC while the soviets never lost grip in Russia untill it dissolved. Gorbachev passed the torch on to Yeltsin .You see the how the administration of Tunisia went. Although the guy was a dictator the transition of power went slowly and not so bloody. He fled and his Government set up a new one.

As I said before, you seem to be bizarrely arguing 3 different positions at once. Socialist movements the world over toppled the illiberal "democracies" left by the colonialists. Our movement was no different. There is no denying MSB was a dictator, but your bizarre view that he is somehow responsible for the 21 years and counting of carnage in Somalia following his overthrow is frankly deluded. Like I said in the earlier post, communist dictators far worse than MSB have been toppled from power by ethnic rebels. Haile Selassie, the last Ethiopian monarch in a political system dating back to antiquity, was overthrown by a similar Marxist group. The Derg regime in Ethiopia, led by Mengistu who was by all accounts a butcher far, far worse than Siad (a one year Red Terror campaign resulted in the deaths of up to 500,000 alone and with a total death toll of 1.5-2 million in only 13 years), fell in 1991 to a coalition of rebel groups, much like the revolutionary regime in Somalia fell to the USC and other rebels a few months earlier. While Meles Zenawi has been the undisputed leader of all of Ethiopia since 1991, Aideed was killed in a tribal war against his own sub clan.

If the rebels failed to institute a political system that replaced MSB's supposed tyranny, and instead carved the country into clan fiefdoms and gang territory that has left Somalia to be, as you said, "naked to be raped by Ethiopians and even Kenyans", whose fault is that? The TPLF did what the USC, SNM, and SSDF could not. The blame lies with short-sighted rebels who had no plan and had no policy other than to kill, rape, loot, and steal whatever they could.

kadarre wrote:The army looked after Tunisia while the red berets shot at the people whom they were suppose to protect. Siad could have done all of that and retired in Mogadishu. He chose to be ousted by the gun and flee to the other side of the continent. The Mogadishu stadium massacre and many other heinous crimes that only encouraged your average Somali to topple the Government.

Dont forget that the rebel sought help from non Somalis and they got it. Where was this unity Siad wanted for Somalis? Where was the (Hantiwadaag) Socialism?

I find it bizarre that you would argue this when you earlier wrote, "How could he lose against rebel groups?". Now, you're seemingly denouncing attempts to quell the rebellion. How does one choose to be ousted by the gun? How do you argue that MSB should have defeated the rebel groups and shouldn't have left the country while simultaneously arguing that he shouldn't have suppressed the rebellions. Most would think those two claims are mutually exclusive.

You also seem to acknowledge the fact that the clan rebellions were foreign backed just as we backed the TPLF & EPLF in their war against Ethiopia. The only difference is that the two rebel groups we funded destroyed the Mengistu regime and then rebuilt their country, while the rebel groups Mengistu funded destroyed not only the MSB regime, but the entire country. Surely you're not blaming the "noble" rebels' incompetency on the man they overthrew?

The blame lies with short-sighted rebels

What about the guy who created the atmosphere for these rebels? He called himself Aabo Siyaad didn't he?

The rebels were incompetent in ruling the country and setting up a new administration and in making a new constitution. But they were very successful when it came to defeating their opponent. They struck right in the heart of the country. What I'm saying that people should not be wanting to overthrow their Government in such large numbers. Siyad failed in keeping the peace. He allowed things to escalate and only managed to fuel dis unity amongst us.

The TPLF was setup in 1975 and were already fighting other rebel groups for the Domination of their Tigray territory and dominated their region before the capture of the Government. They managed to consolidate their power.Aideed never managed to successfully become the face of the rebels. Something you should be glad about. After all the TPLF only looks out for Tigray interest and not Ethiopian interest.

[Siyaad] What took place in these two towns was caused by external elements which intended to spread ruin and destruction, terrify people, and drive them away from their homes and land. When the government re-imposed its control over the situation and restored calm to the two towns, I ordered the formation of a committee to rebuild the two towns, return the people to their homes and land, and provide them with means of safety and stability. Indeed, the committee succeeded in imple­menting this order. We are still continuing our efforts to rebuild what the events had destroyed, despite the immense resources these things require. We are resolved to complete this task, God willing.



As for our call on the opposition to negotiate, no positive steps have so far been realized on the part of those who call themselves the opposition. The reason is that these groups cannot trust anyone to negotiate in their name. I believe that it is difficult for them to choose negotiators from among themselves, because each one regards him­self as a leader. The committee is still ready to meet with them and open a dialogue if they are really serious in their demands. Despite this call, the opposition has remained silent. They did not respond to the commit­tee’s calls. We have also instructed our embassies abroad to open unconditional dialogues with them, within the framework of preserving national unity and avoiding any threat to this unity. We will never allow this unity to be threatened. If the opposition has any clear program or aim to serve the country and the citizens, we will welcome a dialogue and we welcome it to the upcoming election. But if it is an opposition for the sake of opposition: If it aims at realizing personal or tribal gains, or if it is instigated by hostile circles, then we believe that it has no place and no chance because the Somali people will never allow their national unity and supreme inter­ests to be harmed. We are prepared to make every effort to preserve national unity, which is worthy of our sacrifices and selfless efforts

http://www.biyokulule.com/Late%20appeals%20part1.htm

If you have differences with us, come and let us debate. People debate, there is nothing wrong in having differences and

In conclusion, you will recall that the Central Committee of the Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party [SRSP] has approved the formation of other political parties, so as to allow everyone to participate in national issues. No one will be hoodwinked into an ideology he does not believe in. We call on all Somalis to participate in the forth­coming exercise. We are prepared for that [applause]. I once again invite those outside the country to come inside and participate in whatever is going on.



The final decision of who will govern this country is in the hands of the Somali public. We are prepared to hand over power to whomever the Somali public chooses. Thank you. [applause]

http://www.biyokulule.com/Late%20appeals%20part2.htm

This video shows you that jaale siyaad handed over power to cumer carte qaalib just like hosni mobarak handed over power to omar suleiman and jpresident siyaad set up a joint committee consisting of former goverment officials and opposition to have a continuity in government
02:39
the old guy with the beard gentleman he is habar gedir and the other guy after him is hawiye too





In this video abaha ummada somaliyeed once again reiterated that dagaal wiil ba ku dhinta ee wiil kuma dhaasho and he asked the rebels to unite and the somali people to put their energy through productive means

Interior Minister Abdiqassim Denounces Violence

Mogadishu Domestic Service in Somali

1900 GMT 24 Dec 1990


[Speech by Abdiqassim Salad Hassan, deputy premier and interior minister, during a news conference in his office on 24 December – live or recorded]



[Text] Brothers, today I wish to mention two broad issues of great importance to the Somali masses. Firstly, we consider as a bandit anyone who makes lawful what God has forbidden, namely the taking of life and public property. A bandit is anyone who enters houses, kills people, and takes away their property. He is anyone who tries to detonate explosive devices among the people in order to create terror. His only goal is to acquire illegal property by means of looting and extortion. Accordingly, the bandit's motive in killing a Muslim and taking his property is twofold: first, to quickly acquire wealth, and the other, to create terror in the minds of people. These are the two issues I wanted to mention.



These bandits, whose aims I have just mentioned, have been operating in other areas and in neighboring coun­tries. As soon as they enter the city, they start terrorizing the people. We must contain these bandits. We must work in unison – for example, by offering tip-offs, by killing and arresting these bandits if they are carrying firearms.



If we, as the masses, do not work in unison, the security forces cannot by themselves do the job of ensuring stability. Without your backing, the security forces are like flesh without bones. Throughout the world, the masses work hand in hand with the security forces. That is clearly what every one of us must do so that we can feel secure in our homes and keep our property, children, relatives, and

http://www.biyokulule.com/Late%20appeals%20part3.htm

By JANE PERLEZ

Special to The New York Times

December 08, 1991

The New York Times

The fighting, which could be heard around the city today with the thud of mortars and the fast rat-tat-tat of machine-gun fire, is the deadly manifestation of a power struggle between two men, President Ali Mahdi Mohammed and Gen. Mohamed Farrah Aideed.



Both are members of the same tribe, the Hawiye, and the same political group, the United Somali Congress.



But each belongs to a different sub clan of the Hawiye. And each claims to be the rightful leader of Somalia,

"There are no determined targets of the artillery, just indiscriminate shelling," said Col. Osman Dahir, a former officer in the Siad Barre army who is a member of a neutral clan trying to negotiate between the two warring factions. "Each side wants to create terror on the other side."

In an interview in his heavily guarded house on Wednesday, General Aideed, who served in the army of General Siad Barre, said it was his aim to "capture Mahdi."



"This is our duty," General Aideed said. He described Mr. Ali Mahdi as more corrupt and more dictatorial than General Siad Barre.

Is it only me or this thread turned into exactly what the OP was warning us against, people making their own version of history here in Snet?

Somalis. SMH!

Twist wrote:Is it only me or this thread turned into exactly what the OP was warning us against, people making their own version of history here in Snet?

Somalis. SMH!

What I have posted is not my version its documented history written by non-somalis
one of the videos I posted where all made by USC themselves and the other video is a the last historic speech of siyaad to te nation

I am still waiting EliteSomali to answer my question regarding his assertion about what happened to Hargeysa's library. Please come forward with some information.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6CGt ... e&q&f=true

I guess that says it all really.

daiman wrote:I am still waiting EliteSomali to answer my question regarding his assertion about what happened to Hargeysa's library. Please come forward with some information.

I can't reference it as I said.

Somali history is a joke because every single Somali has a different story to tell.