Somali Historians come in including you James Dahl

[XimanJaale]

Sabe and Samaale are not tribes per se, it's a social thing, like the Reds and the Whites among the Afars, or the Borana and the Barentuma among the Oromo. Basically it's like this:

In Somali society you have the upper caste who are the Soomaali, and the junior caste who are the Sab.

The Booran have the exact opposite: The upper caste Booran are the Sabbo, and everyone else is in the 'Junior' moeity of Goona (literally means junior).

Originally there was also a division between Orma (original Oromo) and Barentuma (Oromized Oromo). This was discarded in favor of the two moieties being Boorana and Barentuma. In reality Booran is just one clan, the leading clan of the Booran Confederation, and in reality is a descendant of Orma, not the father.

Orma is the same man as Umur, the father of Digil (in reality Digil, or Digalu, is a clan of Orma, not a son). Most of the Goona in the Booran confederation are descendants of Saamaaloo. Does that sound familiar?

Untangling all this, essentially long long ago you had the Samaale and the Orma and a number of tribes in southern Ethiopia. The Eastern Samale and Orma became Muslims and became the Soomaali and the Sab, and the Western Samaale and Orma did not become Muslims and became the Orma and the Goona. Both groups invaded Ethiopia and absorbed a large number of tribes into their ever growing ranks, as did the Abyssinians with their own territories. Islam, the Coptic Church and the Gadaa system all worked overtime to assimilate the hundreds of tribes throughout the horn of Africa and make them "Somali", "Oromo" or "Amhara".

If you look at the area untouched by all this back-and-forth conquest and assimilation, the far southwest of Ethiopia, there are hundreds of small tribes scattered through the area, that's what the whole Horn was once like. Now everyone has been absorbed into one of three super-nationalities.

ok, so there was Samaale and Orma. Were they brothers? Also Amhara what were they? or where they also part of Samaale and Orma? Also where do Beja, Afars, Sidamo all these other cushtic groups come from then?

[jalaaludin5]

What's this, get history lesson from Daarood?
What, as if 21 years of revised and distorted kacaan history wasn't enough now you trying the same thing on the net?

[James Dahl]

Sabe and Samaale are not tribes per se, it's a social thing, like the Reds and the Whites among the Afars, or the Borana and the Barentuma among the Oromo. Basically it's like this:

In Somali society you have the upper caste who are the Soomaali, and the junior caste who are the Sab.

The Booran have the exact opposite: The upper caste Booran are the Sabbo, and everyone else is in the 'Junior' moeity of Goona (literally means junior).

Originally there was also a division between Orma (original Oromo) and Barentuma (Oromized Oromo). This was discarded in favor of the two moieties being Boorana and Barentuma. In reality Booran is just one clan, the leading clan of the Booran Confederation, and in reality is a descendant of Orma, not the father.

Orma is the same man as Umur, the father of Digil (in reality Digil, or Digalu, is a clan of Orma, not a son). Most of the Goona in the Booran confederation are descendants of Saamaaloo. Does that sound familiar?

Untangling all this, essentially long long ago you had the Samaale and the Orma and a number of tribes in southern Ethiopia. The Eastern Samale and Orma became Muslims and became the Soomaali and the Sab, and the Western Samaale and Orma did not become Muslims and became the Orma and the Goona. Both groups invaded Ethiopia and absorbed a large number of tribes into their ever growing ranks, as did the Abyssinians with their own territories. Islam, the Coptic Church and the Gadaa system all worked overtime to assimilate the hundreds of tribes throughout the horn of Africa and make them "Somali", "Oromo" or "Amhara".

If you look at the area untouched by all this back-and-forth conquest and assimilation, the far southwest of Ethiopia, there are hundreds of small tribes scattered through the area, that's what the whole Horn was once like. Now everyone has been absorbed into one of three super-nationalities.

ok, so there was Samaale and Orma. Were they brothers? Also Amhara what were they? or where they also part of Samaale and Orma? Also where do Beja, Afars, Sidamo all these other cushtic groups come from then?

Well this is where it gets tricky, because the ORIGINS of the Samaale and Orma predate not only the Arab-style clan reckoning, but also the Gadaa system. They could be a thousand years old or two thousand or five thousand years old for all we know. In the very beginning they could have been just two of hundreds of tribes who they slowly absorbed over centuries or even millenia. It's too far back in time, so we just don't know.

Amhara just means "free man", Amhara are Habeshized Agaws, Oromos, Mayas, Argobba, Gafat, Gumuz and a hundred other tribes.

[XimanJaale]

Well this is where it gets tricky, because the ORIGINS of the Samaale and Orma predate not only the Arab-style clan reckoning, but also the Gadaa system. They could be a thousand years old or two thousand or five thousand years old for all we know. In the very beginning they could have been just two of hundreds of tribes who they slowly absorbed over centuries or even millenia. It's too far back in time, so we just don't know.

Amhara just means "free man", Amhara are Habeshized Agaws, Oromos, Mayas, Argobba, Gafat, Gumuz and a hundred other tribes.

Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

We can also examine how old they all are. Finding historical information is good but scientific studies can help out too. Also I don't like how the eurocentrics try to call the Cushtic people are mixture of 'white/arabs'.

[metamorphosis]

Isxaq ibn mohamed ibn Ali ibn Abi talib ibn abdul mutalib? Is this what meyle meant?

[BlackVelvet]

James if we are looking that far back, thousands of years ago then yes I am sure the clan systems looked completely different. Also with the spread of Islam it wouldn't be surprising if histories and identities were changed to mirror these changes. We can see some of this happening in recent history and even today


Whereas you're looking at it from a forward chronological order I'm trying to work backwards.

[BlackVelvet]

Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

Problem no.1:

Who is "Somali"?

[XimanJaale]

Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

Problem no.1:

Who is "Somali"?

The Somalis of today. You could ask the same questions for Oromos, Beja, Afar and Amhara's too.

[BlackVelvet]

I can't speak about the others so I can only discuss what I understand (marginally)

Ximaan the point is - are the Somalis of today possibly a mixture of Samaales of the old day and Oromo/other tribes? If you compare just somali DNA to one another how many different groups would you find even within the same qabiil?

[James Dahl]

Well this is where it gets tricky, because the ORIGINS of the Samaale and Orma predate not only the Arab-style clan reckoning, but also the Gadaa system. They could be a thousand years old or two thousand or five thousand years old for all we know. In the very beginning they could have been just two of hundreds of tribes who they slowly absorbed over centuries or even millenia. It's too far back in time, so we just don't know.

Amhara just means "free man", Amhara are Habeshized Agaws, Oromos, Mayas, Argobba, Gafat, Gumuz and a hundred other tribes.

Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

We can also examine how old they all are. Finding historical information is good but scientific studies can help out too. Also I don't like how the eurocentrics try to call the Cushtic people are mixture of 'white/arabs'.

It will be a challenge, that's for sure. Regardless of whether the results of such a study would be enlightening on these questions, I am sure they would be fascinating.

[BlackVelvet]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

[500ml]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

no bitch!

[XimanJaale]

I can't speak about the others so I can only discuss what I understand (marginally)

Ximaan the point is - are the Somalis of today possibly a mixture of Samaales of the old day and Oromo/other tribes? If you compare just somali DNA to one another how many different groups would you find even within the same qabiil?

Well first we found out the difference between Oromos and Somalis genetics by using very large samples so we can get as accurate as we can. once we found out, we can see which of the Somalis are Samaales or Orma as James mentioned. Then we can do different test within the Somali people and test like a thousand people of different sub-clan and found out the average results and see if there are differences between the clans and which clans are more closer to each other, and those people that dont have the same average genetics as their clan then those have clearly assimilated and we can possibily found out their real clan by comparing its results with other clans and whichever clan they closely match with is their real clan.

[XimanJaale]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

no bitch!

Why u swearing at her? isku xishood she is a girl and ur a guy. If u didnt agree with her tell her in cool manner.

[James Dahl]

James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

People will just get upset, suffice it to say there are conflicting traditions and let's leave it at that.