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James Dahl wrote: Sabe and Samaale are not tribes per se, it's a social thing, like the Reds and the Whites among the Afars, or the Borana and the Barentuma among the Oromo. Basically it's like this:

In Somali society you have the upper caste who are the Soomaali, and the junior caste who are the Sab.

The Booran have the exact opposite: The upper caste Booran are the Sabbo, and everyone else is in the 'Junior' moeity of Goona (literally means junior).

Originally there was also a division between Orma (original Oromo) and Barentuma (Oromized Oromo). This was discarded in favor of the two moieties being Boorana and Barentuma. In reality Booran is just one clan, the leading clan of the Booran Confederation, and in reality is a descendant of Orma, not the father.

Orma is the same man as Umur, the father of Digil (in reality Digil, or Digalu, is a clan of Orma, not a son). Most of the Goona in the Booran confederation are descendants of Saamaaloo. Does that sound familiar?

Untangling all this, essentially long long ago you had the Samaale and the Orma and a number of tribes in southern Ethiopia. The Eastern Samale and Orma became Muslims and became the Soomaali and the Sab, and the Western Samaale and Orma did not become Muslims and became the Orma and the Goona. Both groups invaded Ethiopia and absorbed a large number of tribes into their ever growing ranks, as did the Abyssinians with their own territories. Islam, the Coptic Church and the Gadaa system all worked overtime to assimilate the hundreds of tribes throughout the horn of Africa and make them "Somali", "Oromo" or "Amhara".

If you look at the area untouched by all this back-and-forth conquest and assimilation, the far southwest of Ethiopia, there are hundreds of small tribes scattered through the area, that's what the whole Horn was once like. Now everyone has been absorbed into one of three super-nationalities.

XimanJaale wrote:

James Dahl wrote: Sabe and Samaale are not tribes per se, it's a social thing, like the Reds and the Whites among the Afars, or the Borana and the Barentuma among the Oromo. Basically it's like this:

In Somali society you have the upper caste who are the Soomaali, and the junior caste who are the Sab.

The Booran have the exact opposite: The upper caste Booran are the Sabbo, and everyone else is in the 'Junior' moeity of Goona (literally means junior).

Originally there was also a division between Orma (original Oromo) and Barentuma (Oromized Oromo). This was discarded in favor of the two moieties being Boorana and Barentuma. In reality Booran is just one clan, the leading clan of the Booran Confederation, and in reality is a descendant of Orma, not the father.

Orma is the same man as Umur, the father of Digil (in reality Digil, or Digalu, is a clan of Orma, not a son). Most of the Goona in the Booran confederation are descendants of Saamaaloo. Does that sound familiar?

Untangling all this, essentially long long ago you had the Samaale and the Orma and a number of tribes in southern Ethiopia. The Eastern Samale and Orma became Muslims and became the Soomaali and the Sab, and the Western Samaale and Orma did not become Muslims and became the Orma and the Goona. Both groups invaded Ethiopia and absorbed a large number of tribes into their ever growing ranks, as did the Abyssinians with their own territories. Islam, the Coptic Church and the Gadaa system all worked overtime to assimilate the hundreds of tribes throughout the horn of Africa and make them "Somali", "Oromo" or "Amhara".

If you look at the area untouched by all this back-and-forth conquest and assimilation, the far southwest of Ethiopia, there are hundreds of small tribes scattered through the area, that's what the whole Horn was once like. Now everyone has been absorbed into one of three super-nationalities.

ok, so there was Samaale and Orma. Were they brothers? Also Amhara what were they? or where they also part of Samaale and Orma? Also where do Beja, Afars, Sidamo all these other cushtic groups come from then?

James Dahl wrote:
Well this is where it gets tricky, because the ORIGINS of the Samaale and Orma predate not only the Arab-style clan reckoning, but also the Gadaa system. They could be a thousand years old or two thousand or five thousand years old for all we know. In the very beginning they could have been just two of hundreds of tribes who they slowly absorbed over centuries or even millenia. It's too far back in time, so we just don't know.

Amhara just means "free man", Amhara are Habeshized Agaws, Oromos, Mayas, Argobba, Gafat, Gumuz and a hundred other tribes.

XimanJaale wrote:Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

Jasmine6 wrote:

XimanJaale wrote:Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

Problem no.1:

Who is "Somali"?

XimanJaale wrote:

James Dahl wrote:
Well this is where it gets tricky, because the ORIGINS of the Samaale and Orma predate not only the Arab-style clan reckoning, but also the Gadaa system. They could be a thousand years old or two thousand or five thousand years old for all we know. In the very beginning they could have been just two of hundreds of tribes who they slowly absorbed over centuries or even millenia. It's too far back in time, so we just don't know.

Amhara just means "free man", Amhara are Habeshized Agaws, Oromos, Mayas, Argobba, Gafat, Gumuz and a hundred other tribes.

Can't we just use genetics to find who are most closest to each other. Like examine:
1. Somalis
2. Oromos
3. Beja
4. Afar
5. Amhara's (all the cushtic confederations as you stated free man)

We can also examine how old they all are. Finding historical information is good but scientific studies can help out too. Also I don't like how the eurocentrics try to call the Cushtic people are mixture of 'white/arabs'.

Jasmine6 wrote:James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

Jasmine6 wrote:I can't speak about the others so I can only discuss what I understand (marginally)

Ximaan the point is - are the Somalis of today possibly a mixture of Samaales of the old day and Oromo/other tribes? If you compare just somali DNA to one another how many different groups would you find even within the same qabiil?

500ml wrote:

Jasmine6 wrote:James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?

no bitch!

Jasmine6 wrote:James your opinion - do you think it is a coincidence that there is Warsengeli Harti Darood and Warsengeli of Harti Abgaal? Does it happen often that tribes who aren't neighbours have the same name?