Possible repercussions of gender imbalances

[Lamagoodle]

Whats the point of doing a degree today if its not technical/science related which many somali women dont do. And there are other degree with low job prospects such as Law which is full up.
And the average degree doesn't get you far nowadays in this job market, apparently your doomed with a third class degree. Degrees have never been so overrated today.

As I wrote in my reply to Lilaahiye, on a global level; on average, people with a university degree earn more than people without. Aggregated that is.

Why 3rd class degree? Why don't you go for top-class degree? why don't you join the best university? we should aim for gold saaxib!!!

Almost all available statistics (and there are many) point to a strong (almost causal) relationship between university education and earns(jobs). There are some anomalies of course.

[Lamagoodle]

BTW,
Those of you who claim that university education does not pay should read the literature on this issue; google scholar or other repository will do.

To my knowledge there are no studies that claim/found the opposite. This is all the more important for us Somalis because we have relatively few university graduates than other immigrant groups in the diaspora.

Somalis love anecdotal evidence and will point to anomalies; but facts remain facts.

I suggest you check OECD statistics; many of us live in the 34 oECD countries; check the education statistics and labour market statistics; you could also check the innovation indicators. You could also look at the outlook (economic statistics).

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/statistics

If you are in the US, there are resources at the National Bureau of Economic Research. The working papers from this institution are very prestigious. http://www.nber.org/

[grandpakhalif]

I bet those "studies" promoting the idea that university degree = higher earnings is funelled by the universities themselves to increase their enrollment. Use your brain that God gave you and stop pushing the same old mantra!

This thread reminds me of what Shaykh Muqbil of Yemen said, "Many admire those who have degrees in knowledge, but learn actually very little."

[Basra-]

Most of the empirical classic literature authors never had University education. (Charles Dickens, the Bronte's, Thackeray etc etc ) Heck, Jane Austen ONLY had 8th grade schooling. Yet Miss Austen is considered as a paragon of good literature in the universities today. What does that tell u? That someone who self taught themselves becomes the teacher in the academic tutorial classes? Oxymoronic right?

[Lillaahiya]

SOme excellent points! It is hard to disagree. However, the subject was on university education. It was not education in general or the issue of knowledge in society. As Polany and Hayek wrote decades ago, we all know that knowledge (tacit/codified) is important. Academic degrees are not neccessarily what determines success. We cannot, however, deny that university education is important. About the diminishing of university education ; that says nothing. Statistically, university degree holders are still faring well in the labour market. Diminishing does not mean not important. There is a positive relationship between aggregated earnings and university degrees (that is a fact).

Yes, I have mentioned on the forums that people with post secondary degrees or diplomas generally make more money than people with simply a high school education. It would be callous, though, to ignore the fact that undergraduate degrees have depreciated in value in the last few decades. A large portion of undergraduates need a couple years of experience/training and/or a post-graduate degree to find a decent job in their field. I'm not arguing that because the market is saturated with degree/diploma holders that these credentials are not important. What I'm arguing is that there are lucrative careers that don't require the aforementioned, and that people who are in these fields shouldn't be deemed as less/uneducated.

[Lamagoodle]

I bet those "studies" promoting the idea that university degree = higher earnings is funelled by the universities themselves to increase their enrollment. Use your brain that God gave you and stop pushing the same old mantra!

This thread reminds me of what Shaykh Muqbil of Yemen said, "Many admire those who have degrees in knowledge, but learn actually very little."

There is perhaps an element of truth in that GrandP but just an ounce. It could be the case that society itself places alot of hope on education and that a degree is viewed as important even though it is not.

Who is Sheikh Muqbil? Sheikh Lamagoodle says " education is the key to accomplishing a competitive society"

Basra; you are becoming the mother of anomalies All great men in history never went to university; but, university education has indeed made this world a better place; in medicine, engineering, and the social sciences.

Lilaahiye, again good points. But, diminishing in value is not the same as "nsignificant" is it; education is the same as commodities/currencies; depreciation is not the same as obsolete.

True, there are lucrative career paths which do not need a degree but does that mean that we should ask all somalis to participate in "Big Brother"? for instance.

[Basra-]

Lama@lol

Indeed, I may qualify as the best anomaly award, but u get my point right - Lama? I think what grandpakhalif aka Lillaahiya is trying to say is--- Education institution suppresses the genius or originality of individuals. They go to this factory based institutions where everyone is mold into a sameness and one. You learn the same pathos of thinking, the same vocabulary and educational bullet points, and somewhere in the years you lose yourself. Imagine if Jane Austen had gone to an education institution? She would have lost her originality. She would not have invented her own style in fear she will be out of convention. I admit-- university education makes the world a better place, but only for those without an originality spank! Millions of people are born none original. No genius in them. To this populous, institutional education is essential. To genius like me--education was a waste and a corrupt.

[Lamagoodle]

Lama@lol

Indeed, I may qualify as the best anomaly award, but u get my point right - Lama? I think what grandpakhalif aka Lillaahiya is trying to say is--- Education institution suppresses the genius or originality of individuals. They go to this factory based institutions where everyone is mold into a sameness and one. You learn the same pathos of thinking, the same vocabulary and educational bullet points, and somewhere in the years you lose yourself. Imagine if Jane Austen had gone to an education institution? She would have lost her originality. She would not have invented her own style in fear she will be out of convention. I admit-- university education makes the world a better place, but only for those without an originality spank! Millions of people are born none original. No genius in them. To this populous, institutional education is essential. To genius like me--education was a waste and a corrupt.

I got it Basra, I am assuming that you studied behaviourial sciences ( pedagogics). In that case, practice and tacit knowledge are important. What about those of us who have studied medicine, engineering and other degrees? we have learned to diagnosis and treat patients; to construct complex structures etc; Please do not belittle university education.

I am in no way claiming that everyone should take university education; tradesman/vocational training is important.

Basra; based on your observation: in your town and somalis; who attends universities? men or women?

[Basra-]

Most of the Somali university students are girls. Its not different from your own area. But it depends, I have seen gradual increase of Somali boys from previous years. The thing is--Somali parents with some western education high school or college tend to have kids who guarantee going to university. So, I guess in 10 more years ---the number of Somali boys in campuses will increase. But to be sure, girls will always out number boys in higher education, even among none Somalis. There are more cadaan girls than boys in universities.

[Lamagoodle]

Most of the Somali university students are girls. Its not different from your own area. But it depends, I have seen gradual increase of Somali boys from previous years. The thing is--Somali parents with some western education high school or college tend to have kids who guarantee going to university. So, I guess in 10 more years ---the number of Somali boys in campuses will increase. But to be sure, girls will always out number boys in higher education, even among none Somalis. There are more cadaan girls than boys in universities.

Thank you Lady Basra. That was my point with this thread; based on my observation, there are more somali girls than boys in campuses. That is the case also with non-somalis. I do hope that the number of somali boys will increase; but, if we look at the trend (there are some local studies on this issue) and how our society is structured in the diaspora, there will be fewer boys; the consequence of this could be summarised as follows; there will be unprecedent disparities which will impact family dynamics. I don't know why this thread suddenly became a thread on the merits of higher education ( that is indisputable).

The underlying reasons for this uneveness are many but META hit the nail on the head (read his reply on the earlier pages)

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

But when their small brains are occupied with the garbage they learn in their sociology, Psychology, Nursing etc they become intolerably stupid

Now you could argue that arts/humanity degrees are 'useless' w/o a post graduate degree but nursing

That post was a joke. Although, I might argue why you don't just do medicine, pharmacy or dentistry.

[AbdiWahab252]

Lama,

I concur with what you said Abti. When I was a university student in the mid 90s, there were few skinnies and fewer Xalimos.

Yet, what is the correlation between education and marriage choice ? I feel at least in my case, the sole purpose is to find a woman who is fit to reproduce health offspring, has strong family values, is good at her diin and then her education helps. I find it quite annoying when dealing with these educated sisters who are awful homemakers. Her food if she cooks tastes like crap, apartment is a mess and has the arrogance of a PhD while holding an Associate's Degree.

The best educated homemakers are sisters from Asia. They are modest yet highly educated. So its all about values then education ? A MD won't help make me feel like a man after a long day at work where I just want a nice home cooked meal & 2 hours of pure silence to watch TV

[SummerRain]

^ Hello Mr. I want my cake and eat it too.

Until we start parenting girls and boys equally and setting equal expectation for both, the gap of imbalance will keep growing. If we want boys to be successful in this society then we need to give them practical real world training; the same way we have set expectations for girls. That includes basic necessity such as ironing clothes, cooking, cleaning, lawn mowing etc. It may not teach them to conquer the world at first,but it is a stepping stone to the meaning of personal responsibility. Its absurd to expect someone to have capabilities to contribute to the world when they can't even care for themselves. The average Somali male has never paid a bill prior to getting married or perhaps had minimal responsibility at home....and is probably 25+ when he moves out.

[BlackVelvet]

So how about answering my question?

Its all perfectly clear what benefits educated sisters bring to the table but what could be the downside to that?

There is no downside. They will have the opportunity to select a non-somali man or stay unmarried; are you ok with that? I am

Been saying this for years

[Reacher]

Cambuulo ma Karin kartaa aa ii daran, baasto suugo isku dhaceeso leh, iyo soor. If her doctorate comes with that know-how, am cool with Xawo/Xaliimo.