How many somali GAALO are on snet ?

[SimplySerene]

I don’t stress myself over this issue much. To me it’s simple

We all have our different path in life and most people are generally good and are just trying to figure out their path. I hope for the best for myself and everyone else. I think the best we can all do for each other is be kind and patience and offer advice on each others journey in life.

That is all


Nice discussion

[zumaale]

@zuumale my comment came out as strong but i didn't intend it to. yes you are right about one thing, that most atheists hail from non muslim countries, but obviously in a world where everyone is the same no one asks questions, but if you are surrounded by tons of different people, all coming from a different religion...they tend to wonder more and learn about each other, and eventually they start to question. and thank you for answering my question

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

[Lamagoodle]

Dude, Harar and Sheikh were localised Islamic centres, not international centres of learning. Harar city itself was inhabited by a non-Somali population. The clans that lived around Harar were nomads centuries after its sacking by the Oromos. Xamar was not a 'Somali' city, the inhabitants were non-Cushitic Somalis predominately. Even when the Abgal Imamate had authority over the city, they remained on its outskirts and left the town dwellers to their own devices.

Put your feelings about 'Wahabism' to one side. You cannot surely argue that we as a Muslim society have learnt more about Islam in the past century than the preceding centuries. We were predominately illiterate in Arabic and so were a lot of the 'Wadaads'. They could read the Quran as taught to us by Yusuf Al Kowneyn and knew the basics of Fiq, hence, the name Faqis but interpretation of the Quran and Science of the Hadith was beyond the common Wadaad that serviced the Geeljires in the Badiyo. Somali society as a whole has benefited from greater contact with the Muslim world following colonisation as it resulted in the greater proliferation of Islam among the masses.

Saaxib, I am sorry but your knowledge of Islam and Somalia is limited. Zeylac, Harar (we could debate whether they were somalis there or not, but that is for another discussion) and Sheikh were centres of Islamic learnings. Have you been to those places? I have been to Zeylac and Sheikh. Xamar was a somali city; Read Ibn Batuta.

You are simply wrong by claiming that we have learnt alot in recent decades!!! That is what the Wahabis claim. I am sorry but you have listened to their discourse. I don't know why you are putting an equal sign between islam and arabic. You maybe too young but Somalia has been an islamic country for many centuries. The only thing we recieved is wahabism which is half culture and half religion. If you are calling that islam then you need to seek knowledge saaxib.

I also forgot to mention in our earlier exchanges that Sufism is not what the wahabis brand it to be. Sufism contributed to the spread of islam. It used another kind of pedagogics unlike the kaligii muslim methodology employed by wahabism.

The Yusuf; ok. What about if you second cousin, an atheist, proposes to marry your sister? Surely, you will say ok. Somali marriages have nothing to do with faith. Alot to do with cultural proximity.

[KnowThySelf23]

@zuumale my comment came out as strong but i didn't intend it to. yes you are right about one thing, that most atheists hail from non muslim countries, but obviously in a world where everyone is the same no one asks questions, but if you are surrounded by tons of different people, all coming from a different religion...they tend to wonder more and learn about each other, and eventually they start to question. and thank you for answering my question

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

lol i was thinking everything you said in the first paragraph sounded familiar until you quoted me. i didn't get you're last point there tho...are you saying that education is corrupting the minds of muslims and driving them away from islam? Coming from a science background i understand the point your trying to make...but depriving the youth of education to preserve islamic ways of life sounds very......taliban-ish. Nevertheless i agree that evolution contradicts religion and in the science world at least, it is taught as a fact rather than....theory. I've even had a biology professor once say that evolution isn't fiction and that as a scientist you must believe that it is a fact. Anyways if religion wasn't so ...fragile. education wouldn't drive a person away from it. if your muslim you take all of the things a kaffir says to drive you away from islam with a grain of salt. no one can force you to accept islam, and they cannot persuade you from leaving it..if you do, you're iman wasn't strong to begin with, and your probably better of

[QaxootiWaaxid]

@zuumale my comment came out as strong but i didn't intend it to. yes you are right about one thing, that most atheists hail from non muslim countries, but obviously in a world where everyone is the same no one asks questions, but if you are surrounded by tons of different people, all coming from a different religion...they tend to wonder more and learn about each other, and eventually they start to question. and thank you for answering my question

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

You right sxb this stuff is dangerous, I'm going to keep my children ignorant. Inshallah that way they never get corrupted with this dangerous thinking.

[Sophisticate]

Bro, I've taken many courses from evolutionary biology to the theology when I was in undergraduate. I also hold a Masters degree. Although I have a skeptical mind and the capacity to impersonally assess my own assertions and those of others, this hasn't caused me to lose faith. Bro, stop fear mongering. Even within science there is also fixed thinking at times. When new research challenges/contradicts established theories sometimes there is a pushback from those in the old paradigm, it can sometimes take decades to see a shift. Science and religion don't have to be mutually exclusive. You don't have to fear the former and discount the latter. From what I recall the Islamic Golden Age/ "Enlightenment" took place when much of Europe was afflicted with the Justinian plague.

[zumaale]

Jalle Marx, no, apologies to you because your hatred of Wahabbism has clouded your ability to reason and FYI I do not identify myself as anything in regard to 'sects'. However, the facts speak for themselves, answer these questions.

How many Islamic books were published by these Somali centres of learning that you glorify?

How many classical Somali Islamic Scholars are there that are referenced by the wider Muslim World and are there any books of theirs in circulation?

What percentage of Somalis were literate prior to the start of the 20th century?

As for Mogadishu being a Somali city. The facts speak for themselves. The oldest urban settlements were inhabited by a combination of Banadiri ethnic groups. Overall control of the city might have changed hands between nomadic Somali clans but the town dwellers were always mainly these communities.

[KnowThySelf23]

@zuumale my comment came out as strong but i didn't intend it to. yes you are right about one thing, that most atheists hail from non muslim countries, but obviously in a world where everyone is the same no one asks questions, but if you are surrounded by tons of different people, all coming from a different religion...they tend to wonder more and learn about each other, and eventually they start to question. and thank you for answering my question

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

You right sxb this stuff is dangerous, I'm going to keep my children ignorant. Inshallah that way they never get corrupted with this dangerous thinking.

......................................... i really hope your trolling. because if you aren't then that is literally the saddest thing I've ever heard.

[zumaale]

@zuumale my comment came out as strong but i didn't intend it to. yes you are right about one thing, that most atheists hail from non muslim countries, but obviously in a world where everyone is the same no one asks questions, but if you are surrounded by tons of different people, all coming from a different religion...they tend to wonder more and learn about each other, and eventually they start to question. and thank you for answering my question

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

lol i was thinking everything you said in the first paragraph sounded familiar until you quoted me. i didn't get you're last point there tho...are you saying that education is corrupting the minds of muslims and driving them away from islam? Coming from a science background i understand the point your trying to make...but depriving the youth of education to preserve islamic ways of life sounds very......taliban-ish. Nevertheless i agree that evolution contradicts religion and in the science world at least, it is taught as a fact rather than....theory. I've even had a biology professor once say that evolution isn't fiction and that as a scientist you must believe that it is a fact. Anyways if religion wasn't so ...fragile. education wouldn't drive a person away from it. if your muslim you take all of the things a kaffir says to drive you away from islam with a grain of salt. no one can force you to accept islam, and they cannot persuade you from leaving it..if you do, you're iman wasn't strong to begin with, and your probably better of

How can you teach two contradictory ideas to a growing mind, that could easily be a recipe for a disaster. I am not saying education in itself is can drive Muslims away from Islam but the Curriculum has to adhere to Islamic standards. If it contradicts Islam and promotes blasphemous ideas then it surely against Islam to have an impressionable child study it when they do not even have an Islamic foundation to start with.

I personally have grown up with Western ideas on religion, science etc and I am still a believer Alaxamdulillah but that does not mean I cannot see the dangers of it been exposed to children, especially, when these ideas are transmitted in a secular/atheist environment that emphasises that progress and a laissez faire attitude to religion are intertwined.

[Lamagoodle]

Jalle Marx, no, apologies to you because your hatred of Wahabbism has clouded your ability to reason and FYI I do not identify myself as anything in regard to 'sects'. However, the facts speak for themselves, answer these questions.

How many Islamic books were published by these Somali centres of learning that you glorify?

How many classical Somali Islamic Scholars are there that are referenced by the wider Muslim World and are there any books of theirs in circulation?

What percentage of Somalis were literate prior to the start of the 20th century?

As for Mogadishu being a Somali city. The facts speak for themselves. The oldest urban settlements were inhabited by a combination of Banadiri ethnic groups. Overall control of the city might have changed hands between nomadic Somali clans but the town dwellers were always mainly these communities.

True, I hate wahabism with passion saaxib. It is not islam but arab culture. Unfortunately, it seems that you have swallowed Wahabi propaganda as "islam". I don't want to engage with you or anyone for that matter on the subject of theology; I am not a religious scholar. I do not have a waan daadshe mentality. I do not condemn people/knowledge as wahabis do. I have read alot of books on history.

What do you mean by "classical somali islamic scholars"? I am sorry but you are not making sense with these kinds of questions. Muslim scholars were not classified according to nationhoods.

What percentage of somalis were literate? depends on what you mean by that. It is also difficult to statistically discern this..

Are you claiming that the Banaadir communities were not somalis? War anagaa wax aragnay!!!! Read the tales of Ibn Batuta; should be somewhere on Wikepedia. Suppose they are not somalis as you alude to; does that mean that the somalis who lived in Banaadir, Shabeelooyinka were pagans as late as the last century? You are not making any sense saaxib.

Think and reflect saaxib. Somalis have been muslims for many centuries. Islam to Somalia did not come with petrodollars. You have been influenced by Wahabi propaganda... I urge to read more, young man.

[QaxootiWaaxid]

[

It is just not about contact with other people from diverse faiths or atheists. The biggest challenges stem from certain aspects of science and philosophical intellectualism. Western scholarly traditions emphasise freedom of thought and to question things that cannot be backed up by evidence. One of the main principles of Islam is a belief in the unseen and from an atheists perspective, it is viewed as a superstitious belief. If I recall correctly you inadvertently referred to Islam as superstitious in nature.

by KnowThySelf23 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Some one with a master degree, who is obviously educated, and has money, ANDDD Dean????? yea she's a lost cause..everyone knows education and superstition don't mix

Sending your child to a school that adheres to secularism and teaches a curriculum that contradicts Islam is a danger to the Islamic upbringing of the child. In the United Kingdom, for instance, we had to learn the Theory of Evolution is school and in Sociology we studied man's need for religion.

You right sxb this stuff is dangerous, I'm going to keep my children ignorant. Inshallah that way they never get corrupted with this dangerous thinking.

......................................... i really hope your trolling. because if you aren't then that is literally the saddest thing I've ever heard.

I'm 100% serious. I would rather have my children ignorant in Somalia than for them to think blasphemous thoughts and leave Islam. This is really shocking to me and I can't understand how your families are ok with this.

[zumaale]

Bro, I've taken many courses from evolutionary biology to the theology when I was in undergraduate. I also hold a Masters degree. Although I have a skeptical mind and the capacity to impersonally assess my own assertions and those of others, this hasn't caused me to lose faith. Bro, stop fear mongering. Even within science there is also fixed thinking at times. When new research challenges/contradicts established theories sometimes there is a pushback from those in the old paradigm, it can sometimes take decades to see a shift. Science and religion don't have to be mutually exclusive. You don't have to fear the former and discount the latter. From what I recall the Islamic Golden Age/ "Enlightenment" took place when much of Europe was afflicted with the Justinian plague.

I am not fear mongering sis, read my latest reply to KTY23 and the rationale for educating children in an Islamic academic environment.

As individuals, we react to acquired intelligence in different ways but you cannot deny the un-Islamic nature of some scientific theories and a child should not be exposed to them.

It is not only scientific ideas but ideas on equality, justice, freedom etc are not universal and vary from society to society. A child in growing up in the West will subconsciously be saturated with their ideas on how a society should functions, the freedoms inherent to man in a democratic society, gender roles etc. You look at Western critics and lot of Muslims who have become atheists; they are critical of Islam and its 'restrictive' attitude to freedoms and lack of equality in the ideal Islamic model of governance.

[KnowThySelf23]

@zuumale yea but if you teach your children the importance if islam and be their influence at home the you won't have a problem. most kids that grow up with religious parents generally don't turn away from islam, and if they do then there a lot older and more mature (at that point you did the best you could). the problem here is that everyone sees islam as a fragile thing, but if your belief is strong then nothing could change that. muslims would look at evolution the same way an atheist would look at religion, they would both learn it and understand it, but take it with a grain of salt....or mock it, what ever floats your boat. there are a lot of religious muslims who come from a science background. even sophi up there (shout out! <3) studied evolution yet remains a muslim. point is you shouldn't view your religion as something fragile, if your iman is strong nothing in the world could break it. not even an atheist, a homosexual, or good forbid an atheist science professor lol. have good day zuu

[FAH1223]

This is the main problem, and the virus that has spread from our brothers in the Najd to the whole Muslim world has confused everyone and prevented discussion of the most important issues by making everyone focus on mere dogma and the appearance of piety.

Arabs have the trauma of colonialism and its long lasting debilitating effects. The Turks survived that thanks to Attaturk.
Because of colonialism the Arabs have been fookedwith by lots of different western ideologies and been bullied.

They have reverted to Islam as a way to cope, but they reverted increasingly to a narrow, dry interpretation that has come from our brothers in the Nejd. We also seen this with Somalis especially in the aftermath of civil war. The narrative has been that Somalis were ignorant, Muslim by name, not knowledgable, and didn't know how to properly be Muslims until the Saudis came by and built the huge Mosque in Xamar or were visibly giving money to the Somali government in the 70s and 80s.

The Turks have had secularism forced down their throats and at gunpoint, but they survived, and they remained Muslim. The accidental positive side effect was that Turkey was shielded form "Salafism/Wahhabism". Now, it is a country of Muslims run by actual Muslims who understand governance and the international system.

The result of this is that the Turkish peoples interpretation of Islam has not changed and was the same as everyone else's before the 1970's.

Before the 70's everyone was like the Turks. After the 70's especially in a place like Somalia we have seen a huge change.
The appearance of piety and small issues like women's clothes has taken the forefront over important issues

This here is the main issue facing the Muslim world, the literalists have no respect for the works of the people who are far more superior in knowledge. They dismiss them as "deviants, Sufis, mushriks, etc"
They do not believe in Tafsir of Ayat or hadith, they are against ta'wil, they are against Fiqh in essence.
They want to depend on ayats and hadith and their literal interpretation, a childish look and expect to build a new religion based on this?

Many Muslims don't buy this.

These people will be destroyed easily by secularism that is their intellectual superior. I've witnessed a lot of folk going astray because of this narrowed thinking.

Our religious tradition, as interpreted by the exegetical works of our scholars who spend decades inculcating themselves in the hermeneutics of our religious sciences, is a tradition with lofty ideals and pragmatic solutions to the reality of the human condition.

Furthermore, our faith has no need for reformation. Those who are educated enough to understand the process of reformation and the impugning of the infallible nature of scripture, are aware of the by-products: skepticism, radical secularism, and the eventual decay of religious practice before faith. Sometimes attempts to revive those reformed religions result in an evangelism steeped in individualized dogmatism. Islam has no need for reformation. It is obvious many Muslims need it especially with how we've seen Muslims cope with realities of the times in the past 40 years.

Everyone has a religion in this day and age. It's either a recognized faith tradition, a cult, an ideology, or self-worship.

[KnowThySelf23]

I'm 100% serious. I would rather have my children ignorant in Somalia than for them to think blasphemous thoughts and leave Islam. This is really shocking to me and I can't understand how your families are ok with this.

LOL wow.....do you also work for the taliban as well?

how..or what would make you keep your children ignorant? if you had faith in your own religion you wouldn't think it was so fragile. it isn't your schools job to raise your children for you. they spend most of their time at home, so educate them on islam and the islamic way of life at home. sheltered children are usually the ones to act out the most. so let your kids get educated and do your part at home. don't expect teachers to raise your children for you.


or you can live in a farm and milk camels for ever your choice.