SomaliNet Forums

Nomad stick to the topic you always derail to some kacaan faqash altered universe

kadarre wrote:

GubanOgoJSL wrote:Somaliland and Somalia speak two different dialects of the somali language but af maay is completely different the vast majority of somalida do not understand it because it's own language

The vast majority of Dutch people do not understand fries and yet it's still classified as a Dutch language.

You argument is invalid.

Kadarre brother dont bother arguing with this dude. he is a troll who camps in somalinet and spams the plays.

Nomad stop hating just because you don't know shit on the topic don't mean you can't stop me from having my input on it

An English-Maay dictionary was finally published in 2003. Maay is supposed to be a second official language of the Somali Republic.



"Somali people speak quite a number of languages and dialects, Maay and Mahaa being the lingua franca of the majority. In 1972, the latter was put in a written format and became the national language of the country. This experiment alienated the other Somali languages and produced tremendous disenchantment, particularly on the part of the Maay speakers. In 2003, however, the Somali Peace and Reconciliation Conference at Mbegathi, Kenya, acknowledged that Maay will be another official language of the Somali Republic. This English-Maay Dictionary is the first experiment exploring the roots of Maay language and its relationship to the other Somali dialects as well the Kushitic family of languages in the Horn of Africa. The dictionary provides over 15,000 of the most frequently used words in Maay and their English translations, with numerous examples of their every day usage. The dictionary is a vital addition to reference collections supporting undergraduate and graduate programs on African and Middle Eastern Studies. It is also an essential tool for non-Somali case workers such as those in refugee camps, immigration and naturalization officials or lawyers dealing with Somali asylum seekers. It is equally a vital tool for interpreters and translators working on court cases, hospitals and legal papers as well as for public school teachers on ESL programs that teach Maay- speaking children in English- speaking countries. ________________________________________________

Dr. Mohamed Haji Mukhtar is Professor of African and Middle Eastern History at the College of Liberal Arts and Social Sciences, Savannah State University, USA. He is the author of many scholarly books and articles including Historical Dictionary of Somalia (2003). Dr. Mukhtar, a native Maay speaker, is fluent in Mahaa, English, Arabic, Italian and some Asiatic languages such as Bahasa Malaysia. Omar Moalim Ahmed is a data processing coordinator at Quality Education Data, a Scholastic Company in Denver, Colorado, USA. An agricultural economist, Mr. Ahmed has worked as a research fellow in socioeconomic baseline study for Bay Region Agricultural Development Project (BRADP) and Juba Environment & Socioeconomic Studies (JESS)."

DR-YALAXOOW wrote:IRRI= CIRKA.
huryaaw= huraya
hogol= gugaca= biriq
Hareedii= xareeed
jiiftoo= jiiftoo
heelaha= xoolaha
badiinsho= aad u baddan
maba la hisaabaane= maba xisaabsamaan..

af eelaayga waa af soomaali xoogaa la qalqaloociyey... ogaawna ilaaayga ama af maayga isaga naftiisa waa lahjado kala duwan dhexdooda isma fahmaan.. qaar ka mid ah af maayga eelaayga lahjadahooda waxaa isaga dhaw afka maxaa tiri.. isma fahmaan.. af maay dhexdooda...

datoore reer icturaaf ha u camirin la annoo hadalkooda waa siyaasadeysan yahay ee ma ah wax scholarship kI dhisan. Mida kale bal maxaa ka galey sab waxey ku dhaqan yihiin samaalaha!.

yaa datoore saying wal instead of wax is what dialect is about

NO. Af maay is one dialect, its the mirifle dialect not even included the digil dialect wich is closer to the banadiri dialect(lower shabelle)...af maay/mirifle is the second somali dialect in baay, bakool, gedo and jubada dhexe....for example the jareer in shaballe speak af maxaa but in gedo and jubada dhexe they speak of maay

There r minority dialects within the digil iyo mirifle community such as af tuni, jiido and dabarre

Hassan dahir is from diinsoor so his dialect is dabarre not maay

We were talking about maay wich is communicated by all of the D&M

How can they say this is not a somali dialect?
Maay of baydhaba

maay of the middle jubba

^


lord have mercy, I didn't know it was that bad. I understood only a handful of the words they spoke. Anyone still insisting af-may is just a dialect is lying to themselves.

The situation between Maay and Maxaa tiri is that of between northern and southern French, the langue 'doil (Northern French) and langue d'oc (southern French). Northern and southern French both strongly identify as French, and for political reasons both are considered dialects of French, however a speaker of Normaund dialect cannot understand a speaker of Provençal dialect. This isn't that big of a deal since they both learn Parisian dialect in school (Standard French). This issue is compounded by the fact that French is a dialect continuum, everyone can understand the neighboring dialect, just not one from very far away.

Language vs dialect is ultimately more about politics than about language. Scanian dialect of Swedish for instance is only slightly different from standard Danish, and is closer to Danish than Swedish, Sweden conquered it from Denmark about 350 years ago. Swedish and Danish are themselves very similar, and for political reasons Scanian is considered a Swedish dialect and not a Danish one (except by Danes). Maay is basically the dialect continuum between Somali and Borana, which was probably the same language about 1500-2000 years ago, and has been slowly diverging ever since.

As an expert on this subject,and as a studious individual who has reasearched this matter painstakingly and meticulously on Wikipedia,I would say that the etymoglogies and didactic epistomologies of Somali and af maay are rather nuanced and archaic in their structures.the verb tenses in af maay are pronounced with a lisp,similar to that of a elongated khat takhsin-originating from the upper gows and in between the macawis,.gormaad linguistic experts say wada noqoteen abihin wase?

BaastoUnit wrote:As an expert on this subject,and as a studious individual who has reasearched this matter painstakingly and meticulously on Wikipedia,I would say that the etymoglogies and didactic epistomologies of Somali and af maay are rather nuanced and archaic in their structures.the verb tenses in af maay are pronounced with a lisp,similar to that of a elongated khat takhsin-originating from the upper gows and in between the macawis,.gormaad linguistic experts say wada noqoteen abihin wase?

BaastoUnit wrote:As an expert on this subject,and as a studious individual who has reasearched this matter painstakingly and meticulously on Wikipedia,I would say that the etymoglogies and didactic epistomologies of Somali and af maay are rather nuanced and archaic in their structures.the verb tenses in af maay are pronounced with a lisp,similar to that of a elongated khat takhsin-originating from the upper gows and in between the macawis,.gormaad linguistic experts say wada noqoteen abihin wase?

Grant wrote: Gurey,

I have nothing against Somaliland other than the claims to the lands of the minority clans. If the Isaaq want a country of their own, inside their own lands, no problem. But that is essentially what the federal national organization amounts to. I am not so much against SL, as just of the opinion that their stance is silly. The Mormons once ruled all the way from Salt Lake City to San Diego, but that changed when the US Government arrived. Manifest Destiny and all. The population estimates are totally screwy, as you know, but the most recent offering from the UN says there may be as many Somali Bantu as there are Isaaq. Even if it turns out to be only half of that, you are still talking about a lot of people. I find that totally sobering. It's the treatment of the minorities that concerns me most, as the UN report on the Jubaland Assembly gives clear good reason.

For someone your age you are quite naive, at least i hope it is nativity not disguised hatred, i am giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Somali politics is a zero sum game , eat or be eaten.
Our brothers in the south are just better at image management and propaganda,
If tables were turned and we isaaq were a minority , i would pray to be treated the same way we treat them.
We are the only force out there, trying to minimize casualties, especially civilians,
the only thing we hurt is the ego of sum people.

contrast that to how we were treated by the Somali government , how the majerteen were treated ,how the rest of somalis were treated,
how the minorities are still treated like.

Another thing you should know is that there is little somali nationalism in the rest of somalia,
there is little group feeling outside of immediate subclan, while the denial of recognition creates a circling of the wagons feeling
plastering over all inter isaaq conflicts and keeping us united and determined.

So i say whats silly is the idea that some government in moqadishu will ever have any real power in Somaliland,
it unrealistic they can never be as determined as we are to be free of them, and if they had just 10% of our unity and determination there would be substantial progress in state formation in the rest of the country, miles ahead of what we have here.

your mormon analogy is ridicuous, Somalia is not even a tiny fraction of the scale the US government was Vis a vis the Mormons in the 1850's.
Somalia will never be a viable millitary threat to us for the forseable future.
Even if Somalia recieved billions of dollars in arms and training, due to logistics , they would not be able to seriously project power into the Somaliland border.

If you wish to wish to underestimate the isaaq population, you are free to do as you wish,
i agree that they are underestimated, but there is nothing sobering for me.
I sympathize with them, but you cannot equate them to any other somali clan.
first of all they do not have much group feeling, they do not indentify collectively.
wheras all other somalis identify with each other even rivals, because of somali identity.

For example as an isaaq, i am deeply offended by misbehaviour of AU troops in xamar,
everytime an AU soldier abuses a somali, i want to take a machine gun and spray them.

expanding further the group feeling, i am racist towards palestinians and i have a negative view of them because of personal experience
and i have a positive personal experience with jews and ISrealis even.
But i am extremly anti zionist and and Isreal, and every attack on palestinians offends me and is an attack on me, because of ISlamic identity.

your bantu minorities do not have as much group feeling as somali clans..

back to topic james dahl gave us the best quote that sums it all up.
"A language is a dialect with an army and a navy" - Max Weinreich

maay speakers now have a state, real political power.
we can saflley say they are a language now.

How can they say this is not a somali dialect?
Maay of baydhaba

maay of the middle jubba

I could understand both videos. given a chance and letting the ears get use to the sound, I can understand 60% to 70%.



So, if a reer jabuuti can understand it, it cannot be another language.
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so what a portoguese spooeaker can understand more than that in Spanish. and an italian can understand at least 50 percent of spanish

Gurey,

Somaliniimo and Qabyyalad color your attitudes, as you seem to realize.

There's a definite political component here. Maay speakers are Sab. Maxaa speakers are nasab, and therin, I think lies part of the Somali rub. Here is the Wiki entry for Maay:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maay_language

I think it would be very interesting to see if someone here who thinks Maay is a dialect and not a language can get it changed. There is an edit function on the page.

"Maay Maay (also known as Af-Maay, Af-Maymay, Rahanween, Rahanweyn, or simply Maay) is a member of the Cushitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic family and is written using the Latin script. It is spoken mostly in Somalia and adjacent parts of Ethiopia and Kenya. Its speakers are known as Sab Somalis. The center of the language is around Baidoa.

Overview

Somali linguistic varieties are divided into three main groups: Northern, Benadir and Maay. Northern Somali (or Northern-Central Somali) forms the basis for Standard Somali.[3]

Maay is principally spoken by the Digil and Mirifle (Rahanweyn or Sab) clans in the southern regions of Somalia.[3] Its speech area extends from the southwestern border with Ethiopia to a region close to the coastal strip between Mogadishu and Kismayo, including the city of Baidoa.[4] Maay is not mutually comprehensible with Northern Somali or Benadir, and it differs considerably in sentence structure and phonology.[5] It is also not generally used in education or media. However, Maay speakers often use Standard Somali as a lingua franca,[4] which is learned via mass communications, internal migration and urbanization.[5]

Maay is closely related with the Jiido, Dabarre, Garre and Tunni languages that are also spoken by smaller Rahanweyn communities. Collectively, these languages present similarities with Oromo that are not found in mainstream Somali. Chief among these is the lack of pharyngeal sounds in the Rahanweyn/Digil and Mirifle languages, features which by contrast typify Somali. The retroflex /ɖ/ is also replaced by /r/ in some positions. Although in the past frequently classified as dialects of Somali, more recent research by the linguist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi has shown that these varieties, including Maay, constitute separate Cushitic languages. They may thus represent traces of an Oromo substratum in the southern Rahanweyn confederacy.[6]"