Strictly Hypothetical Question

[Grant]

Would the outcome of the 1977 war with Ethiopia have been different if the Barre regime had stopped at the borders of the Ogaden and not gone up the pass?

[AbdiWahab252]

Grant,

Somalia would have not faced collapse in the same manner.

[The_Emperior5]

what the fock man that means mye city harrar would be still under tigray regime no man siyaad did what he could do respect the man ability to win battles
He was a good comnader in chief

[*Arabman]

[Would the outcome of the 1977 war with Ethiopia have been different if the Barre regime had stopped at the borders of the Ogaden and not gone up the pass?]

Counter-hypothetical question:

Would there have been a war between Ethiopia and Somalia if Jimmy Carter didn't encourage Barre to start a war against Ethiopia?

[DawladSade]

Counter-Counter hypothetical question

Woudn't the whole of East Africa be Greater Somalia had the Soviets and Cubans not interfered in the Ogaden war?

[Somaliweyn]

ULTRA COUNTER HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION:

-Would Ethiopia exist if the Europeans never supplied them with modern rifles while Somalis and the rest of Africans were explicitly boycotted from this trade in modern rifles by the Brussel Convention of 1890?

-Would Kenya exist if the Somali expansion southwards was never stopped by the British at the Tana river?




Then after all 1964 and 1977 wouldn't happen

[Grant]

Somaliweyn,

I have also read that about the British, but it is my understanding that the archaeological evidence says that the Somali migration was north from the Tana, and not south to it.

Arabman,

I confess that I did not know a good source of regional news during the Carter years, and probably also had my head buried pretty deep in lab affairs.
Still, your comment contradicts what I know of American policy in the Area.

It has always been my understanding that the US supported the OAU in it's policy of maintaining the colonial boundaries, and that it was for this reason the US declined to arm/train the Somali armed forces and chose instead a program of national development and training/equiping the police forces, prior to the full Russian takeover in 1969.

Someone did mention that Carter did supply some military aid to the Barre regime after the Russians stopped, but I also understood it only to be in homeland defense quantities and that it ended when Barre's internal actions got really outrageous.

I am going to need a link to put your comment in a context I can understand.....Thanks.

[Alluring]

Grant,

There are a lot of issues which need to be resolved. But with Habar Gidir and the Hawiye on Somali soil primarily Mogadishu, Somalia would have always endured hardships.

The mistake was with the Siad Barre administration. If there was an equal proportion of Darood's and Hawiye's in Mogadishu things would have been vastly different. Daroods had too much properities with massive wealth ( which they worked for) while the Hawiye also had properities but not in the same level as the Darood's, and they overpopulated the city immensely.

If Siad Barre brought the Ogaden and Marehen into Mogadishu I reassure you, we would have kicked them in the jaw.

Plus most of the military men that worked for Siad Barre were Hawiye, they easily distributed the weapons amongst themselves.

[King-of-Awdal]

[quote="Alluring"]Grant,

There are a lot of issues which need to be resolved. But with Habar Gidir and the Hawiye on Somali soil primarily Mogadishu, Somalia would have always endured hardships.

The mistake was with the Siad Barre administration. If there was an equal proportion of Darood's and Hawiye's in Mogadishu things would have been vastly different. Daroods had too much properities with massive wealth ( which they worked for) while the Hawiye also had properities but not in the same level as the Darood's, and they overpopulated the city immensely.

If Siad Barre brought the Ogaden and Marehen into Mogadishu I reassure you, we would have kicked them in the jaw.

Plus most of the military men that worked for Siad Barre were Hawiye, they easily distributed the weapons amongst themselves.[/quote]



Do you honestly hear urself subhanallah. so ur saying the hawiya dont belong in somali soil. as for the capital they are suppose to be majority its freaking their land just as any other major city is predimonantly populated by the tribe that historically own the region. As for properties owned by all the other tribes its irrlevant they were immigrants to the city so get ur facts rights instead.

[Alluring]

Kid.

Re-read what I wrote, I said as long as the Hawiye's are in Somalia she will not prosper. How can a whole tribe have the IQ of an elephant? They don't want peace, stability or fortune.

They had 17 years to stabilize their region, and they didn't. No other qabiil was there to mix trouble. Now they are fighting amongst themselves, one person of their qabiil can not even say "I hope that Somalia has peace, and we all need to reunite" without them being killed the next morning.

[King-of-Awdal]

[quote="Alluring"]Kid.

Re-read what I wrote, I said as long as the Hawiye's are in Somalia she will not prosper. How can a whole tribe have the IQ of an elephant? They don't want peace, stability or fortune.

They had 17 years to stabilize their region, and they didn't. No other qabiil was there to mix trouble. Now they are fighting amongst themselves, one person of their qabiil can not even say "I hope that Somalia has peace, and we all need to reunite" without them being killed the next morning.[/quote]


True they had 17 years to stabilize their region but thats because a few warlords
got addicted to haram money and blood so obviously they dont wanna let go. but at the same time you have ur puntland enjoy it they are not coming to ur lands and destroying it are they. to each let them solve their problems. its not like the old times every tribe went back to his ancestoral home and fixed their problems obviously it will take much longer for them because there is no other city in somalia in history or even now that is soo diverse with multi clans so obviously it will be harder.

[Alluring]

This is the issue.

I am not from any region in Puntland, I was born in Mogadishu. So when people base their assessment and state that what occurs in Mogadishu doesn't concern me shows that that they lack some sort of brain wave activity.

I care about all the regions in Somalia. But I wanted to instill that if it weren't for Hawiye, that Somalia would have been the way it was in the past, but stronger.

[Gedo_Boy]

Answer to All Hypothetical Questions


"What Allah Wills will Be, and what Allah does not will can never be"

It couldn't be any other way so I don't think it's fair to say "Had he/we..." because hindisght is 20/20 and we see things that the past people didn't see

[King-of-Awdal]

[quote="Alluring"]This is the issue.

I am not from any region in Puntland, I was born in Mogadishu. So when people base their assessment and state that what occurs in Mogadishu doesn't concern me shows that that they lack some sort of brain wave activity.

I care about all the regions in Somalia. But I wanted to instill that if it weren't for Hawiye, that Somalia would have been the way it was in the past, but stronger.[/quote]


So what if u were born in Mogadishu that doesnt mean its ur ancestoral home. i was born in Montreal that doesnt make me a francaphone. my dad was born in Djbouti and so waz my mom but at the end of the day she has more claim to Hargesia and he to Awdal thats the point here. quit blaming a whole society aka Hawiya for the mistakes of a few. every Topic out there u seem to always have something negative to say about Hawiya. the reason somalia isnt just because of one Tribe its the fault of all. thats like me saying if it werent for Siad barre darood , hawiya and isaaq we wouldnt be in this mess. and for me what i mean what happens in Mog doesnt concern me is the inhabits of the area and the city are much closer to each other than so am an outsider and am a firm beliver that two brothers should solve their issues by themselves cause when an outsider shows up we all know what happens.

[Alluring]

[quote="King-of-Awdal"][quote="Alluring"]This is the issue.

I am not from any region in Puntland, I was born in Mogadishu. So when people base their assessment and state that what occurs in Mogadishu doesn't concern me shows that that they lack some sort of brain wave activity.

I care about all the regions in Somalia. But I wanted to instill that if it weren't for Hawiye, that Somalia would have been the way it was in the past, but stronger.[/quote]


So what if u were born in Mogadishu that doesnt mean its ur ancestoral home. i was born in Montreal that doesnt make me a francaphone. my dad was born in Djbouti and so waz my mom but at the end of the day she has more claim to Hargesia and he to Awdal thats the point here. quit blaming a whole society aka Hawiya for the mistakes of a few. every Topic out there u seem to always have something negative to say about Hawiya. the reason somalia isnt just because of one Tribe its the fault of all. thats like me saying if it werent for Siad barre darood , hawiya and isaaq we wouldnt be in this mess. and for me what i mean what happens in Mog doesnt concern me is the inhabits of the area and the city are much closer to each other than so am an outsider and am a firm beliver that two brothers should solve their issues by themselves cause when an outsider shows up we all know what happens.[/quote]


Comparing being born in Montreal to being born in Mogadishu, is showing me that you might be sniffing too much glue. I actually am Somali, while you aren't Canadian (Canadian is a falsified nationality, such as American) anyone can be American, but not everyone can be Somali. Two different scenarios.

Those who built the city are the city. The Natives own the Americas, but the land was without technological advances, living wild. The same example can be used with the Hawiye's even if they lived in Mogadishu before other's it has nothing to do with it. Darood's built Mogadishu with their blood, tears and sweat. And the Hawiye's brought back to primitive ages.