Polling SomaliNet: what is your Islam?

[Padishah]

Arabman is the inspiration for this poll.

To begin with, I want it known that these 'labels' are at best, two dimensional, and might not reflect the full spectrum of your opinions, beliefs or leanings where it concerns Islam in its many facets. However, I'd like you to choose the one that closely approximates your chosen view.

The choices are in descending order, from the least observant and most interpretative, to the (fanatically) observant and literalist strains of Islam, followed by a brief explanatory note"


1. Progressive Muslims - are the least observant in the religion, and absolve themselves of these strictures by denying the validity of Hadith, and being overly interpretative and allegorical. Their 'Islam' is purely in the spirit, having no outward distinguishing behaviours. Proponents of this 'brand' are people like Irshad Manji and the PMU.

2. Secular Muslim - are more observant of the religiouns requirements, prayer and fasting being observed to varying degrees dependant upon personal piety. Their main distinguishing feature is their distaste for Shariah or Islamically based government, opting for Western Secularism.

3. Traditional Muslims - are observant based on their personal piety, ranging from minimal observance to a moderately strict level. Distinguishing features of this group include an adherence to one particular Madh-hab, an acceptance of the validity Sufi practice, a focus on the inward dimensions of worship. Proponents include the (late) Shaykh Muhammad al-Maliki (Saudi Arabia), GF Haddad and Mufti Usmani (Britain), Hamza Yusuf Hanson (US), etc.

4. Fundamentalist Muslims - are strictly observant and place more emphasis on the outward dimensions of worship. Have a particular preponderance for removing all traces of Bid`a, whether its Hasana or Sayi'ah, from the religion and 'purifying' it. One of these Bid`as is the use of the prayer beads, or Sufi pratice. Proponents include Salafi Scholars such as Uthaymin, Albani, bin Baz, etc.

5. 'Islamist' Muslims - are strictly observant and place more emphasis on the outward dimensions of worship. They are drawn to the political issues of the Muslim world (like establishing a Caliphate), necesitating the '-ism' label. They also have a unique preponderance for conducting 'Jihad', currently against Western Imperialism as they see it.. Proponents include Al Qaeda, Jama Islamiah, etc.

6. 'Takfiri' Muslims - are strictly observant and place more emphasis on the outward dimensions of worship. Share with the Islamists the preponderance for political issues of the Muslim world (like establishing a Caliphate), as well as believing that 'Jihad' as the paragon of all acts of worship. Have the unique habit of excommunicating the wider Muslim population as corrupted hypocrites and no longer Muslim - a label applied only to their own ideology. Proponents include Syed Qutb.


I hope I have done justice to the labels and their descriptions. Please vote, and leave comments further clarifying your stance, if you so wish.

[Lacageylacag]

You forgot Dabadhilif muslim.
Members are Abdullahi Yusuf, Geedi, Paidjunk, etc.

[cabdallah252]

[quote="Lacageylacag"]You forgot Dabadhilif muslim.
Members are Abdullahi Yusuf, Geedi, Paidjunk, etc.[/quote]


you forgot ''the one minute muslims''

90% of xamar is

looting and raping for 16 years and acting waddaad for 6 months

[Somaliweyn]

Your definitions are flawed.

For example, I consider myself a progressive, yet am observant when it comes to my Islamic duties. Do not question the validity of the Quran and Hadith, have outward distinguishing behaviours, believe that one day the Muslim world is ready to establish a Calipath, and believe that one day a society can be ready to implement an Islamic law based on Sharia.

Also, the division within Muslims is not because of belonging to artificially constructed subgroups but rather on how to achieve widely cherished goals like: A prospering society based on Islamic morals, a dynamic and robust Ummah with its own global political, social and economic institutions which can suplement the Western global institutions based on Western morals.

In short, every Muslim wants a prospering Muslim community, a golden Muslim Age, but the disagreement is on how to achieve this.

Some are pragmatic, tactfull, patient etc, others are radicals and discard all the intermediate steps in achieving the end goal. I can identify myself with the first group which is pragmatic.

[Padishah]

Somaliweyn, I respectfully disagree.

I refer you to this disclaimer:

"To begin with, I want it known that these 'labels' are at best, two dimensional, and might not reflect the full spectrum of your opinions, beliefs or leanings where it concerns Islam in its many facets. However, I'd like you to choose the one that closely approximates your chosen view." - Padishah


Now, you are quite free to consider yourself a 'progressive'. I do have to warn you that some terms, especially when used as a descriptive device in reference to politics or religion, have acquired a certain meaning. For instance, fundamentalism has acquired a distinct connotation for from dogmatic inflexibility, when in actuality, returning to the basics of any situation is usually a good thing. In the same vein, 'progressive' moniker has acquired a particular militantly liberal and/or modernising connotation. The 'progressive movement' within Islam, as exemplified by Irshad Manji and the Progressive Muslim Union, advocate in a complete revampment of the religion to confrom with the current modern liberal norms, and the acceptance of such practices as open homosexuality in the religion.

As for the divisions within the Muslim Ummah, they are too numerous to count and present here. However, I can say that the majority of Muslims can and do fall into these labels based on a narrow band of almost stereotypical traits.

[Somaliweyn]

Well, first you need to distinguish muslim point of view, and western point of view.

In the west, there are pseudo-muslims who have distorted their muslim morals and intermingled it with Western/Secular morals, these people call themself progressive, and are seen by Westerners as such.


But in the eyes of Muslims, they are on the brink of leaving the Islamic religion and becoming heretics. So their idea's are not seen as progressive, but rather deluded idea's, Westernized ideas. These people also do not want a serious debate, but rather publicity and career in Western countries which are gladly to use any negative thing against Islam and muslims.

I believe my idea's are mainly seen as genuine progressive muslim ideas.

So I stand by my case, I am a progressive muslim, as seen from the eyes of a Muslim. If you summarize my view of been a progressive muslim and put it in the poll list, I can assure you that majority of muslims on this net will choose that option.

[Basra-]

I am neither of the above. I am a muslim according to the teachings of Quran, the holly book and following guidance of our last prophet Muhammad PBUH.

[TheBigBosS]

im a wadaad

[Padishah]

Thankyou Somaliweyn for clarifying your stance. However, please choose the closest approximation of your particular view from the Western viewpoint, as we are in the West.

That's all fine and dandy Basra. Only problem with that non-committal stance is that every group claims to be on the path illuminated by the Prophet (PBUH). The question is, which particular stream outlined above is the closest approximation of your particular views.

[*Arabman]

According to Padishah's brief explanatory of the choices in this poll:

1. If you're Progressive Muslim, like Irshad Manji, then you're a lesbian or gay.

2. If you're Secular Muslim, you can only accept a democratic, communist, socialist or other man-made systems-- never Shariica.

3. If you're Traditional Muslim, you're a Sufi, a grave and dead sheikh worshipper.

4. If you're Fundamentalist Muslim, you're 'Islamist' Muslim, because Fundamentalist Muslim is the old label that replaced 'Islamist' Muslim.

5. If you're 'Islamist' Muslim, you're for establishing a Caliphate and conducting 'Jihad', just like the Sahaba and those who followed them.

6. If you're 'Takfiri' Muslim, you're like 'Islamist' Muslim, you're for establishing a Caliphate and conducting 'Jihad', just like the Sahaba and those who followed them. In addition, you denounce, criticize and excommunicate Progressive and Secular Muslims, Muslims who are lesbians or gays, Muslims who drink wine, eat swine, are OK with killing unborn children, cooperate with non-Muslim occupying and colonizing forces, etc.

So, the first three choices are out of question. The 4th is a defunct label that has been abandoned for the current 5th label. That leaves you the 5th or 6th. I voted the 6th. Bear in mind, I am not sensitive to labels that are meant to make you an apologist for non-Muslims.

[Basra-]

[quote="Padishah"]Thankyou Somaliweyn for clarifying your stance. However, please choose the closest approximation of your particular view from the Western viewpoint, as we are in the West.

That's all fine and dandy Basra. Only problem with that non-committal stance is that every group claims to be on the path illuminated by the Prophet (PBUH). The question is, which particular stream outlined above is the closest approximation of your particular views.[/quote]

Padisha and the answer none of them. I feel that my description as a muslim doesn't fit in these biased 'groupings!' My simple answer is i have Quran as my quide to my muslimniimo, basically as they say-- Quran is my bible.

[Padishah]

Again, Arabman, you show your pathological aversion to the subtleties of language and expression. Also, none of the attentuated choice you've written are according to me.


1. Progressive Muslims are not ALL gay or Lesbian, but PERMIT homosexuality as an expression of personal sexual orientation, and do not consider it a sin. Along with that, they are for 'equality of the sexes' over 'equity of the sexes' as classical Islam has shown.

2. Secular Muslims favour the use of secularism as a more MODERN form of government as opposed to the 'medieval' monarchies dependent on the power of religion to sustain them. This is quite different from being 'able to only accept man made systems, and this is the only difference between them and the normal Muslim.

3. You can be a traditional Muslim and NOT be a Sufi. This is a crucial distinction you are incapable of making. Traditional Muslims are characterised by not having a problem with those among them PRACTISING Sufism, but do not necessarily practice Sufism themselves. As for the other statement characterising some of the most righteous persons in Muslim history as mushriks, this is tantamount to kufr in itself. But as a Takfiri, we're not suprised by those remarks.

4. There is a particular DISTINCTION between Fundamentalist Muslims and 'Islamist' Muslims. 'Islamist' Muslims are much more involved in politics and the politicisation of religious differences to gain power, which is why a whole new '-ism' was created to describe their particular political phenomenon. Fundamentalist Muslims put more emphasis on faith, while 'Islamists' on the political aspects of Islam.

5. You're right about the 'Islamists'. The only problem with your statement being that you try and use the Righteous Companions and their children to legitimise them. The Companions and their descendents fought for Allah, his Messenger and bringing Islam, the RELIGION to the world. These mass murderers fight to bring their particular POLITICAL VIEWS cloaked in Islamic garb on the bodies of those thousands they've killed.

6. Takfiri's are uber-Islamists. The only DISTINCTION between them and run of the mill 'Islamists' is that they consider EVERYONE else but themselves non-Muslim, no matter if their ideology or practice of Islam is exactly the same as theirs. Thus, the blood of Muslims is perfectly halal, as is their murder and theft of property.

I am not suprised you consider yourself one. Probably couldn't earn an honest living, so you resort to murder and theft to keep yourself alive, all the while thinking your neo-Kharijite mindset is the True Path!

[Pitsaleh]

Curious dichotomy this: progressive and secular, unless descriptive words no longer retain their universal meaning, surely are synonymous, both appellations representative of a worldview informed strictly by a framework of logic and objective reasoning, unmolested by theology or such claims as purport to know the mind of God.

The same holds equally true for fundamentalism and Islamism; interchangables the former of which suggests a literalist rendering of scripture ( seven heavens really does mean seven heavens!) and the latter delineates a political ideology closely modeled on Saudi Arabia.

The trouble with Islamists of course is their utopian notion of resuscitating the glorious Caliphate, far-stretching and all inclusive is ahistorical. Muslim dynasties were warring with each other for supremacy just as often as they did battle with Crusaders. Internecine bloodbaths was a central feature of the Muslim empires. The corpse of the Prophet had still been warm when splinter groups first surfaced affirming what is now a universal truism: avarice and not religion is nine times out of ten the determinative factor in matters political.

Good post!

[DawladSade]

Padishah, for one suspicion is haram but I believe it is reasonable saying do not waste much of your time on "Arabman". He has history in this forum of over years ago and no Muslim of his false level of worship sits 24/7 infront of a screen knowing it is completely waste of time in the Islamic perspective when he could be out there making dacwah, purifying his soul, and practicing constructive highly recommended conduct such as reading the Qur'an, praying, internal jihad, etc.

As for your designations, I would have to say I highly disapprove of it. The prophet (Salalahu calayhi wassalam) said ultimately there will be 73 divisions of Islam of only 1 being the rightful version. Why the need to fall down a route that you obviously know will never bring good things to you? Forget about sects, firqas and concentrate on yourself as being a Muslim. When someone asks you what you are reply "I am a Muslim, following God's orders as displayed in the Qur'an and practicing our beloved prophet's Sunnah as recorded". That should be your label and the label you expect of all other Muslims.

[*Arabman]

It's baffling that there are less than 10 voters in this poll and the last similar polls posted by Grant and musika man. I don't know why.