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Many clans exist in more than one clan-group, and often genealogies contradict one another. However there is a way that the genealogies are true and contradictory at the same time, and that is if traditional inheritance law, especially amongst the ancient Irir peoples, was different before the arrival of Islam than it is today.

Many pagan tribes in East Africa practice matrilineal inheritance, which means the son of a chief's elders daughter inherits the throne, rather than the eldest son's son. Irir were in Somalia before the arrival of Islam and many of them may have practiced this form of inheritance, and kept it around for legal and political reasons long after they converted to Islam.

So say this system is in place, and a Harti (who would use the Patrilineal system) marries an Abgaal princess (who still uses the matrilineal system for tradition's sake) and has several sons. Those sons would be sons of Harti, but some of them would go on to lead Darod clans, and others Hawiye clans, due to the mixed inheritance system.

Just out of curiousity are you Somali? if no, Ur knowledge is quite superb for a non-Somali.

Check here the fission and fussion of Harti clans like the gaseous centrifuge of the Nuclear bomb

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195 ... iagram.jpg

[quote="Ismahan123"]Just out of curiousity are you Somali? if no, Ur knowledge is quite superb for a non-Somali.[/quote]

He is Marehan.

Are U James? Wa maya.

All those non-Somalis (e.g James Dahl, Grant) are all Somalis in disguise.

James, you're trying too hard. There's no clan confusion at all, just the feigning of one. The confusion emanates from one quarter. Namely the daroods. It's same hackneyed stratagem employed by the darood occupation before the civil war. The goal was to divide somali clans to the point where darood supremacy is not questioned and accepted as ipso-facto. So, Isaaq was amalgamated with Dir - giving a new meaning to the saying "killing two birds with one stone". And then Raxanweyn by virtue of not speaking the official Af-maxa, were rendered remnants of Oromo that used to live in Somalia even though there never was any significant oromo settlements in Somalia proper. The most cunning subterfuge of all was spared for Darood's greatest challenge, Hawiye. Because they couldn't plausibly lump Hawiye with other clans, a different approach was called for. The only way to marginalize Hawiye was to invent these mythical genealogies where whole suit of Hawiye clans were no longer Hawiye... like Xawaadle not being Hawiye but Leylkase or something... or Gaaljecel not being hawiye despite being Harre Gugundhabe or some sections of Habar gidir were the bastard child of Ogadens and so on. So there's no confusion at all, merely a deliberate plan to marginalize other clans by previous darood occupation government.

I never heard of Cumar Dheer Habar Gidir. The only Cumar Dheer I know is a subclan of Wagardhac.

[quote="NoAngst."]James, you're trying too hard. There's no clan confusion at all, just the feigning of one. The confusion emanates from one quarter. Namely the daroods. It's same hackneyed stratagem employed by the darood occupation before the civil war. The goal was to divide somali clans to the point where darood supremacy is not questioned and accepted as ipso-facto. So, Isaaq was amalgamated with Dir - giving a new meaning to the saying "killing two birds with one stone". And then Raxanweyn by virtue of not speaking the official Af-maxa, were rendered remnants of Oromo that used to live in Somalia even though there never was any significant oromo settlements in Somalia proper. The most cunning subterfuge of all was spared for Darood's greatest challenge, Hawiye. Because they couldn't plausibly lump Hawiye with other clans, a different approach was called for. The only way to marginalize Hawiye was to invent these mythical genealogies where whole suit of Hawiye clans were no longer Hawiye... like Xawaadle not being Hawiye but Leylkase or something... or Gaaljecel not being hawiye despite being Harre Gugundhabe or some sections of Habar gidir were the bastard child of Ogadens and so on. So there's no confusion at all, merely a deliberate plan to marginalize other clans by previous darood occupation government.[/quote]


Well said..

Noangst, Walahi I am not lying. The CIA fact book lists Rahanwein as Oromo in Southern Somalia, therefore Ethiopia's meddling the south in the early period before the invasion.

But you are wrong for rendering the Dir tribe as confederation. Dir tribe has been known for 100s of years before even the State of Somalia was created out of colonial heritage. The Book of Fatahu Habasha or the Conquest of Abyssinia describes Habar Magaadle (subclan of Isaq) as Dir.

[quote="Somali2003"]Noangst, Walahi I am not lying. The CIA fact book lists Rahanwein as Oromo in Southern Somalia, therefore Ethiopia's meddling the south in the early period before the invasion.

But you are wrong for rendering the Dir tribe as confederation. Dir tribe has been known for 100s of years before even the State of Somalia was created out of colonial heritage. The Book of Fatahu Habasha or the Conquest of Abyssinia describes Habar Magaadle (subclan of Isaq) as Dir.[/quote]


Isaaq is not Dir period.

They are whether you like it or not.

Somali2003,

Just because one subclan of Isaaq was considered part of Dir doesn't lend any credence to the claim that Isaaq as whole are part of Dir clan. You can't extend the specific to the general without solid factual support.

About Oromo in Somalia, this is now widely discarded in Academia. No serious historian or linguist would posit the claim of Oromo settlement in Somalia. The arcane dialect of Af may-may is the source is this error.

Early historians of Somalia assumed because this dialect (they actually thought it was different language) was not the same as one spoken by majority of Somalis and also the fact that Af may-may shared largest percentage of vocabulary with Oromo, meant it was same as Oromo or dialect of it.

Interestingly, some of the evidence of this theory, cited by eminent scholars like I. M. Lewis, is Gaalkacyo.... according to orentialists Somalis came from the North, meaning Arabia, and slowly migrated south displacing original inhabitants. Who were these inhabitants? According to this theory non-believing oromo... so the story goes that the name Gaalkacyo means the place where gaalo were chased out of or dispossessed, hence the name gaalkacyo.

But recent linguistic analysis blows this theory out of the water. Using linguistic analysis, it's now believed Somalis came from the south and moved their way up north until they reached the Indian ocean and Gulf of Aden. So Gaalkacyo means the place camels (gaal in old somali) embarked after watering. And Gaaljecel means camel lover and not kafir lover and Abgaals means Father of many Camels, not father of kaafirs.

Raxanweyns are 100% Somali, only difference is they inherited by what most consider to be the oldest Somali dialect.

[quote="Somali2003"]They are whether you like it or not.[/quote]


IF Isaaq is Dir than there is no such thing called Darood. Like it or Not.

[quote="Ismahan123"]Just out of curiousity are you Somali? if no, Ur knowledge is quite superb for a non-Somali.[/quote]


Somebody please slap this silly girl.