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call them tribal warlords or tribal heavyweights, most of them claim to be protecting their tribe's interests, whether it is offensive and defensive. but along the way they destroy other muslims. word here is they are fighting for tribal interests and committing crimes against the teachings of islam by causing deaths and destruction to other muslims intentionally. if their intention is to destroy other muslims, how can these people and their supporters be considered muslims?

If they say LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADIN RASULUALLAH then they are muslim let Allah deal with their deeds on the day of judgement, we are in no position to say if they should be considered muslim or not.

[quote="Shirib"]If they say LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADIN RASULUALLAH then they are muslim let Allah deal with their deeds on the day of judgement, we are in no position to say if they should be considered muslim or not.[/quote]

^^^

you can say ashahaada but if your existance is to kill and destroy other muslims-other tribes- what is the use of the ashahaada? it is like going to the bar after you pray and fornicate, what is the use of the prayers?

Musika

you cannot question, Only ALLAH SWT can

if they say shahada, they are Muslims

if they're fukked up, then they are fukked up Muslims

thats just how it is

[quote="musika man"]you can say ashahaada but if your existance is to kill and destroy other muslims-other tribes- what is the use of the ashahaada? it is like going to the bar after you pray and fornicate, what is the use of the prayers?[/quote]

Prayer is waajib. You have to do it. The guy who kills and prays is better then the guy who doesn't pray at all.

Whats a bigger sin to kill or not do the most important thing as a muslim which is prayer? Really whats a bigger sin then not praying??

Maybe murder???? Just throwing it out there. But if God considers not praying to be a greater offense to him than murder, then he is not God.

[Whats a bigger sin to kill or not do the most important thing as a muslim which is prayer? Really whats a bigger sin then not praying??]

Are you saying not praying is a bigger sin than killing a nafs?

I think that's what she's saying.

But, of course, the issue isn't is one a bigger sin than the other. The issue is can a Muslim declare someone else is not a Muslim based on their actions? And he answer is no. Some actions may "invalidate" someone's Islamic status, but the judger of said, according to Islamic scholarship, is God. Not other Muslims.

^^^^
I'm a dude.


[quote="*Arabman"] Are you saying not praying is a bigger sin than killing a nafs?[/quote]

Allah is the best judge and I am no scholar in Islam but from what I know their is nothing worst then refusing to pray or not praying at all even killing of another person.

If you know something I don't know tell me, you seem to have some good knowledge about Islam.

Shirib
He does not have good knowledge of Islam. Make him justify his position or he will bullshit you.

[quote="FAH1223"]Musika

you cannot question, Only ALLAH SWT can

if they say shahada, they are Muslims

if they're fukked up, then they are fukked up Muslims

thats just how it is[/quote]

^^^^^^

these somalis were born in islam and not converted so they didn't took the shahada to become muslims. are there islamic principles for muslims to follow, or if you take the shahada and pray you are a muslim regardless of your actions. can you then kill, destroy and rape or support it on the name of a group against other muslims? somalia is exactly like the situation the arabs were when the prophet delievered islam to them. tribal hatred and wars like somalia. tribal hatred and wars among muslims is the opposite of what islam teaches. islamic principles are not vague but very clear. somalis are in denial.

[quote="musika man"][quote="FAH1223"]Musika

you cannot question, Only ALLAH SWT can

if they say shahada, they are Muslims

if they're fukked up, then they are fukked up Muslims

thats just how it is[/quote]

^^^^^^

these somalis were born in islam and not converted so they didn't took the shahada to become muslims. are there islamic principles for muslims to follow, or if you take the shahada and pray you are a muslim regardless of your actions. can you then kill, destroy and rape or support it on the name of a group against other muslims? somalia is exactly like the situation the arabs were when the prophet delievered islam to them. tribal hatred and wars like somalia. tribal hatred and wars among muslims is the opposite of what islam teaches. islamic principles are not vague but very clear. somalis are in denial.[/quote]

if someone says they are MUSLIM

then thats how it is

YOU ARE OF NO JUDGE

YOU CANNOT SAY THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS

YOU HAVE TO SAY THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE PATH OF ISLAM

^^^^

you believe what you want. what i believe and common sense dictates is if you think you are a muslim and consider qabiil politics in killing, raping and destroying other muslims is above islam and what islam says and teaches about this issue. qawiil wars and islam contradict, then if you are a tribal killing machine supporter, then you are not a muslim. unless you think intent killings, rapings and destruction of other muslims on the name of the tribe is supreme than islam. either qabiil evil or islam. they don't mix. you believe and justify tribal hatred. either say islam condones or is against it. if it is against, and you still exercise or support these evil acts, then you ignoring a major principle in islam and you are not a muslim.

[quote="musika man"]^^^^

you believe what you want. what i believe and common sense dictates is if you think you are a muslim and consider qabiil politics in killing, raping and destroying other muslims is above islam and what islam says and teaches about this issue. qawiil wars and islam contradict, then if you are a tribal killing machine supporter, then you are not a muslim. unless you think intent killings, rapings and destruction of other muslims on the name of the tribe is supreme than islam. either qabiil evil or islam. they don't mix. you believe and justify tribal hatred. either say islam condones or is against it. if it is against, and you still exercise or support these evil acts, then you ignoring a major principle in islam and you are not a muslim.[/quote]


NO SH1T

BUT THE THING IS, YOU CANNOT SAY A PERSON IS *NOT* A MUSLIM!

ALLAH SWT IS THE DECIDER OF THAT

OF COURSE THEY DON'T MIX, BUT WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THEY AREN'T MUSLIM

YOU ACT LIKE MUSLIMS AREN'T FUKKED UP