Somalia: Better Off Stateless

[AbdiWahab252]

Interesting paper:

http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf

What do you all think ?

Lets have a serious discussion without emotional rants and insults.

[The_Emperior5]

i agree boqolkii ba boqoll dhaaf

[QansaGabeyle]

I will read the paper later but statelessness is not the answer in my opinion! Abdiwahab, habargedir has been accused of people dawladiid, why are you confirming these stereotypes waraa by posting articles like these.

[AbdiWahab252]

I will read the paper later but statelessness is not the answer in my opinion! Abdiwahab, habargedir has been accused of people dawladiid, why are you confirming these stereotypes waraa by posting articles like these.

Qansa,

Read the article later. But every Dowlad has been harmful to development and economic activity. I am not sure if you remembered how commerce was under the MSB regime. It was hellish compared to say, Kenya which was very friendly to business.

[James Dahl]

The thing these academics never acknowledge is that Somalia was never stateless. After the civil war, Somalia simply devolved slowly into the natural historical political situation of despotic feudalism overlaying a seperate but related system of clan confederacies, which has been in place in Somalia for a thousand years save for a brief interruption between 1850 and 1960.

The mistake that is made is this despotic feudalism is ironically mistaken for anarchism, which is basically the opposite, and the clan confederacies are mistaken for some sort of "innate sense of brotherhood" or "shared sense of destiny" or some other rubbish. The anarchist academics are seeing what they want to see and nothing beyond.

What is a revolutionary and new idea in Somalia is the nation state, not the lack of one.

[AbdiWahab252]

James,

What you have said is partially true. But for arguements sake, lets assume that State = a central authority not a clan authority.

The rise of a central authority especially after 1991 has resulted in massive economic upheaval esp.inflation and devaluation of the Somali shilling.

[James Dahl]

James,

What you have said is partially true. But for arguements sake, lets assume that State = a central authority not a clan authority.

The rise of a central authority especially after 1991 has resulted in massive economic upheaval esp.inflation and devaluation of the Somali shilling.

There are lots of central authorities in Somalia, who report only to themselves, they're called Warlords. They also devalue the currency and mess with the economy, but they also suck money from their citizenry (though less formally than a tax man would, what with the roadblocks and thugs and all) and waste this money going to war with rival governments (those being other warlords).

Somalia has merely replaced one crappy government for hundreds of them.

The irony is that, due to the positive benefits of decentralization, this has been a GOOD thing. The closer to the local level a government is, the better they can govern.

[Somalian_Boqor]

James,

What you have said is partially true. But for arguements sake, lets assume that State = a central authority not a clan authority.

The rise of a central authority especially after 1991 has resulted in massive economic upheaval esp.inflation and devaluation of the Somali shilling.

There are lots of central authorities in Somalia, who report only to themselves, they're called Warlords. They also devalue the currency and mess with the economy, but they also ***** money from their citizenry (though less formally than a tax man would, what with the roadblocks and thugs and all) and waste this money going to war with rival governments (those being other warlords).

Somalia has merely replaced one crappy government for hundreds of them.

lol well said.

[snowflakes821]

So people starving, being raped, killed for 20 years are better off stateless? These issues never existed before the fall of the government in 1991. Truth of the matter is that we have become the laughing stock of the world b/c we're stateless. Failed state has become synonymous with Somalia.

[James Dahl]

I think the answer isn't anarchism or centralization, but rather firm laws and regulations, and strong enforcement of the same, and a focus on building infrastructure.

Somalia needs good roads free of roadblocks, electricity and running water and schools, modern ports not infested with pirates, a stable currency and a government free of corruption.

That is literally all that is needed for Somalia to prosper. Somalia has many natural resources and a clever and industrious populace, and they will take care of the rest.

[FAH1223]

The flow of arms will never stop and the warlords and the clans will always be enemies to each other.

All other civil wars had governments and they were able to come to an end...Somalia has no such thing, nothing at all. Sure there are regional authorities, but they are enemies to each other and will fight over a Las Canod for example forever.

I really think the status quo is never ending unless there is a change of mindset. AND Somalia has to get its shid together FAST otherwise...

[Shilling]

[Voltage]

Abdiwahab try to take an international studies course and learn the objective of neo-liberals who post articles like this. How is Somalia better off stateless? 100 thousands of people have died, hundreds of women have been raped, thousands of kids have been made into militias, our sea-coast is toxic and polluted beyond waste, we are the laughingstock of the world, our people are dying on the oceans in their desperation to flee, we are so helpless one loss of rainful kills thousands of people and even more livestock, infrastructure is non existent, our currency is inflated beyond belief and fake money is pumped into the streets every hour, etc etc etc.

How is SOmalia better off stateless???

If a warlord takes the forced taxes and leejo money he hordes from innocent people and uses it to build a telecomminications firm and other warlords follow him and build those telecommunications, how is Somalia better off or that "competition" is a reflection of Somalia's general well-being?

Neo-Liberal phucks who aint concerned about the price that your mom and sister had to pay for that telecommunications competition but just trying to proof their ideology of extreme capitalism with zero government interference baa la timid and you want us not to call you an illiterate moron??

[Padishah]

If a warlord takes the forced taxes and leejo money he hordes from innocent people and uses it to build a telecomminications firm and other warlords follow him and build those telecommunications, how is Somalia better off or that "competition" is a reflection of Somalia's general well-being?

You're absolutely right Voltage. Why should anyone, including government, take forced taxes and build whatever (infrastructure, schools, etc) and encourage competition, when competition is not a reflection of Somalia's well being?

[Voltage]

Apples and oranges kiddo! How can you aliken present-day Somali warlords and the institution of legitimate government!

Let me sum it down for you this way...even from religious perspective Allah (SWT) has clarified the importance of government by telling us "it is better to have a bad government than no government at all"!