Heaven and Hell, punishment, Physical Or Spiritual, symbolic

[+chilli]

Saalam,

I was reading Al-Ghazzali's Ethical Philosophy and I came across the following paragraphers:

'The threat held out by religion that serpents and scorpions will tormate the sinner in his grave only refers to human traits and attributes is symoblic. The sufferings in Hell will be felt like the bite of a serpent. The delights of Heaven will be the same comfort as shady and fruitfull trees, revulets, fair maidens etc. These are symbolic expressions of the volitional nature of man. Snakes, etc, have their abode in human nature. They were there in man before his death though he was not aware, malice, hyocrisy, pride, averise etc....

'Spiritual pains will be more tormenting than physical ones because physical sufferings are felt only when they affect the soul, but when they asrise in the soul they must be more painful then those experienced by the body'

...Heaven and Hell are spiritual in nature. Spiritual hells are many kinds. Hell may be the forceful separation of the soul from the objects of one's desires...Spiritual hell may spring from disappointment and failure in securing the object of one's existence. The object of the soul is to gain the knowledge of God. But if the soul remains ignorant of Him because of its excessive attachment to this world, it will fail to achieve the real purpose of its existence and will therefore, undergo immense pain...'

(p:118)


Interesting...

Comments..?

[suga_n_spice]

Subxanallah,

Ilaahay ha naga haayo all kinds of pain, spiritual or physical. I've always heard of repetitive physical pain in hell, but never spiritual.

[Tuba]

That's an interesting perspective . But islamically speaking isn't the tornments of hell & pleasures of heaven physical? & hell and heaven described respectively as 'blazing fire, boiling water .. etc' & 'lush green gardens, plentiful fruit, fair eyed maidens, non-intoxicating alcohol etc' so that the punishment is something to fear & that the reward is something to aspire for and that its achieved due to our familiarity with these concepts due to being exposed to them in this world i.e the pain the fire causes & the pleasures of the reward of heaven such as the fruit, chaste women etc

[Kolombo]

Al-Ghazzali, eh? Hmmm.......

[+chilli]

Suga, yeah thats the popular opinion (ahl-al-Hadith, traditionalists), Somali maxdiros scared you with their interpretations. I have never understood why the Somali Shykhs (the ones I'v come across) put so much emphasis on the punishments and torture of the grave. (So many bad memories of me young imagining the punishments they described in so much detail on myself.. )

Tube, yes the hadith is even more explicit. The interesting thing is there just as many verses that insist that the hereafter is not comprehendable.

I have come across this spiritual discourse, mostly in Philosopy, al-Farabi, Ibn Sina and Rushd, all claim this using the Qur'an and alot more Greet literature. Kalam as well, but very rearly.

Kolo, So...? Get them Tafsirs out, I recommend Tabri, Kathir, ar-Razi, Arabi...

[Tuba]

Tube, yes the hadith is even more explicit. The interesting thing is there just as many verses that insist that the hereafter is not comprehendable.

I have come across this spiritual discourse, mostly in Philosopy, al-Farabi, Ibn Sina and Rushd, all claim this using the Qur'an and alot more Greet literature. Kalam as well, but very rearly.

Oh wow, I always thought of the hereafter as being purely physical, I ought to check out them guys then

[Kolombo]

Get them Tafsirs out, I recommend Tabri, Kathir, ar-Razi, Arabi...

I've Ibn Kathir, he's excellent. But, I'm clueless about Al-Ghazzali's claims about the spiritual aspect of punishment in hell.

[+chilli]

Tube, check their works out on here this site: muslimphilosophy.com
It has many the original works, as well commentaries on it.

Kolo. Kathir is ok, he doesn't differ. much with most commentaries.

About Ghazali, I think he wrote this book during his sufi/philosophy stage, his actual thought stream is hard to capture, or to pin-point to certain school in kalam philosophy and taswuf. I came across something of his that was so against the Ash'ri doctrine of atomism, and he is aclimed to be the uphelder of their believes...very interesting.

[Tuba]

Chilli, jazaikumu Allah kheyr dude I'll go check it out now seeing as i'm not really doin anything better

[+chilli]

Go for it, its an amazing site, if ur interested in that stuff you'll get lost init for days..

[Kolombo]

+chilli,

Islamic philosophy was never my strongest area. Al-Ghazzali claims sound interesting, I'll visit the site, insha Allah.

P.S. Whenever Sufi mystic things come in to the equation, I tune-out.

[+chilli]

Kolo, yeah you come across as the very literal guy, take diin at first reality. Stay away from that site... anigo am hopeless metaphorical, reason I prefer sufistic and philosophical discusions on the diin..ilm ma'rifah for me lol

For Ghazali's work check out: Ghazali.org

[Salah Al-Din]

Assalaamu Alaikum,

It is good to read Ghazali work in order to get a deeper understanding of Islam; however, it should be noted not everything in his body of work is correct. As such, one should look at his writings holisiticly and try to understand what it is he is saying. In this case, one way or another hell is painful physical or not. So lets pray to Allah that He forgives our sins and grants us Jannah.

Wassalaam

[+chilli]

Al-Diin,w/saalam

Thats the same with any scholar, but can you elaborate more please...? what do you think of this interpretation?

[Salah Al-Din]

Assalaamu Alaikum,

I'm no scholar but I do not doubt that many a things are metaphorical in Islam. For instance, we know we cannot fathom what form Allah takes, yet there is talk of His Hand and Face. Yet we know Allah does not take a human form and they are metaphorical in nature. In the same instance we as human's cannot comprehend what heaven or hell is; maybe Jannah is a garden? Or maybe its just a metaphor and its even better. Allahu Yaclam. I was breif as I did not want to speculate. However, the main point is the PAIN of hell is real and from these two paragraphs I get that I pray none of us get to find out for sure.

Wassalaam