How recent provinces help the Isaaq clan family.

[Siciid85]

Before:

Sanaag= Isaaq and Harti(majority).
Sool: predominately Dhulbahante with some Isaaq.
Togdheer=predominately Isaaq with some dhulbahante in buuhodle region.
Waqooyi galbeed=Isaaq.
Awdal=samaroon(majority).

Today:

Sanaag: divided right in the middle. Western sanaag inhabited by Isaaqs gets to keep the name. while the Eastern block inhabited by the hartis is given the name, badhan. Here, the Isaaq clan family gets its name on Sanaag and thus can claim to officially have their shair in this state. If referendum is held, sanaag on paper is isaaq territory whereas otherwise hartis would argue that sanaag is harti land and isaaq were minority.


Sool: when you mentioned sool, you think of hartis never isaaqs. Today, Caynabo a district in sool is curved from the main province and given province status to Isaaqs(HJ). Again, Isaaqs can now lay a claim to some parts of Sool as their own. Saraar being the name of the new isaaq province in sool is independent from las anod and will now be adminstred from caynabo city.

Togdheer=it's now all inhabited by isaaqs, the only district that has non isaaqs, buuhoodle is sorted out and put into tiny block with province status.though dhulbahante may gain in some ways, the isaaqs at the end gain the most by having togdheer be 100% isaaq province and tiny buhoodle no longer part of togdheer.

Awdal= divided into two. thus union of samaroon and ciise are weakened. From east, south and north end it's being pressed by gabiley(new province for isaaqs) and w.galbeed another isaaq province. Soon from gabiley will drift towards Awdal and the population of gabilye can moved into awdal and make it a shared province of samaroon and isaaq.

Isaaqs have these provinces to themselves:

Saraar=previously part of sool.
Sanaag=previously western sanaag(it gets the name), the harti part of sanaag is named badhan.
Togdheer=now 100% isaaq inhabited. non Isaaq province of buhoodle is sorted out and thrown out of the mix.
Gabiley=formely part of w.gableed, now given province status to compete with awdal.

isaaqs gained more power and land through the new provinces reallignment. while samaroons and ciise which were alliance in awdal, are now divided and given two small provinces such salal(saylac) and awdal.

The dhuloz now have have eastern sool instead of laying claim to all of sool. Parts of sool is now saraar a new province for isaaqs.
The dhuloz have been given buhoodle=previously part of togdheer. It has no much of province influence on togdheer since it's too small. Soon it will be predominately Isaaqs simply because it's been pressured from north, west and south by togdher and newly named saraar.




Overall, if referendum is held today, the Isaaqs can boost of having control in majority of the land whereas Sool and Sanaag plus Awdal were previously claimed entirely by hartis and samaroons.

Basically, Isaaqs use to have part of sool before the siyad government. It was siyad barre who named sool and made the provincial capital of the state las anod, a dhulbahante heartland.

Also awdal use to be part of w. galbeed province adminstred by Hargeisa. Siyad barre gave it the name awdal and seperated from isaaq adminstred w.galbeed in order to empower the samaroon.

In conclusion, it's save to say Isaaqs way uqayileen reraha kale ee somaliland kula nool. lol

Here is the new map.

[Cali_Gaab]

I don't get your point of referendums being held.
If a referendum was being held, which is negotiated with the Koonfuur maamul i assume you're refering to, then the old regions would be refered to as those regions are widely recognised amongst soomaalida.

These new regions hold no merit.

[Siciid85]

Referendum will not be held between somaliland and somalia. It doesn't work like that. A referendum will be held within the area that is seeking the seccesion, in this case somaliland. If the majority decide that they want seccesion (in this case isaaqs are majority) then it will be legitimate and they need no approval from the south. As far as merits of the new provinces. It will take a time before they actually go into effect. But that being said, how many times have you heard anti somaliland elements boost that somaliland is only 3 city (province) entity and did not include sool, sanaag, and awdal??? I assume quite alot. Now what this newly reallignment does is it gives isaaqs a major junk of land under their name and share in 2/3 of mentioned provinces. the provinces undo what barre government did to isaaqs when it took awdal out of Hargeis'a adminstration and gave it statehood status. Now sool and sanaag were never one clan regions, but on paper that is what they're made to seem like by siyad bare government. Today, sanaag is divided and sool is divided. Each clan now has their own territory without being overshadowed. Isaaqs can now have their cake(w. galbeed, togdheer, saaxil, gabiley, baligubadle, oodwayne) and share sool and sanaag.

[Cali_Gaab]

I get your point, however lets say another referendum is being held where the majority of the region decides to go ahead with the seccesion idea.

You'd still need the referendum to be recognised by external entities, such as the maamul in the South which is the only 'legit' maamul in the country in the eyes of foreign countries.
Referendums in unrecognised regions are not viable.

[abdikarim86]

if it does come down to referendums
samaroon and isaaqs will probably vote for succession

but i am sure hartis are against it, i mean there is no point
s/land being in laascaanood. in the end i am sure they despise us

i mean do any of you see a point in LA being in s/land

[Siciid85]

Cali gaab,

I see. But do you honestly think any southern state will vote in favor of seccesion? no chance. Kosove was seceeding, they decision was made within kosovo, where majority of people vote in favor of it. At the same time the serbians whom they were secceeding from opposed it. their opinion didn't really matter much.

Abdikariim,

offcourse, somaliland has to keep and pursue every inch of its recognised territories.

[Cali_Gaab]

Kosovo is a different story that happened in what is considered to be the heart of Europe.

A genocide has occured in that place and in order for Europe to uphold their motto of 'no man shall live under occupation' and 'freedom is a god given right', what those people decided to hold their referendum on needs to be respected in that part of the world and if Independence is what they have choosen, Independence is what they should recieve.

Keep in mind that we live in Africa and African affairs aren't really important to any external community. What we should be doing is build a closer relationship with Ghadafi and take things on from there.
However, the southern maamul is in a better position than us to be quite frank thus having direct links with the head of the African Union. The African Union would always point us towards their direction and hint that we should seek cooperation with them. The only thing we can do is have communication with them atleats and resolve this issue, hopefully the people of Somaliland get what they desire.

As you can see, Somaliland is stuck in a catch 22 situation. If Independence is virtually impossible like it is at the moment, they should re-join the Union now that things are looking brighter than they have ever been before only this time with condition, condition that will benefit us in the future. Those conditions could be that Somaliland shall stay within the union but with an administration of its own. If that Union fails again, we shall automatically gain independence.

Those conditions would ideally benefit the people of Somaliland and they shall join the union of which its outcome shall be a win-win situation.

[Siciid85]

You made good sound argument there regarding union. But if the south wants union with us then we should invite them to first sing and do that western afrikani booty shaking for us that they're so good at.

[Cali_Gaab]

Not only that, we also need a pirate dress up party, cimaamad dress up party and isbaaro dress up party, maybe even a grave worshipping party.

Being independent from them for so many years just shows how much of their culture we have actually missed out on

[Lite-Somali]

Not only that, we also need a pirate dress up party, cimaamad dress up party and isbaaro dress up party, maybe even a grave worshipping party.

Being independent from them for so many years just shows how much of their culture we have actually missed out on

Doqon foqol doqon its same culture what difference is thier the only difference u see is in ur head not in reality

[lali99]

Salamu aleikum. Cali-gaab first of all i really dont know of what to think of you. You're approaching this topic of referendum as a scholar but you're appraoch to the issue is far away from the esteem that you bestow upon yourself. No disrespect intended but my friend what my countrywomen, Siciid, is saying is totally right and you are wrong. When it comes to referendum, democratically, it is only in the region that in question that gets to vote (e.g. kosovo, Quebec in canada and most of the eastern europe after the fall of the soviet union. There's a proactive reason why it happens like which is to stop further violence, crimes and war because if a population on one side don't want to be a part of a union the what the other part could do about it? keep fighting? Send an army? use blockade method? all these method will just keep creating more violence in the region but none of these method by the way wouldnt have any effect on Somaliland. First of all Somaliland army could hold their own, and if they use diplomatic blockade for aids funds well in that case it could only backfire against the somali government and could be use to divide even more (xasiidnimo) and on top of that it wont that much affect in Somaliland cuz it wont make any difference on their living standard as of right now since they dont receive aids funds.

My point is that Somaliland is here to stay today, tomorrow, next 10 years or evev the next 100 years insh'Allah and that if they're not receiving the recognition they deserve right now, well they will receive it later on when our southern border gets their act together so we could sit on the same table and agree to leave side by side peacefully as tow independant states. You see you might laught at my excentrique idea but you will notice that most somalilander (especially the youth) are more pro-Somaliland than their elders. We been told that we have our own country which was mistakly given away by our forefathers but since now is back into our hands we will not let it go. Im sorry to tell this to all somaliweyn folks in here before you claim somaliland go ahead and claim djibouti or nfd region or ogaden. No one has ownership of somaliland but its own people and they want their own country and are willing to spend money, time and even blood to realize that. Period. Recognition is what the youth are seeking and they're not willing to negotiate on that. the dream of somaliweyn was crush and destroy the day Somaliland declare independance and that dream are well alive even more alive in the youth of somaliland. to my friends in the south realise that Somaliland is gone and is bigger than any politicians, so whatever riyale or silanyo (ISA) will do, the fate of somaliland is only in the hands of the people of the land and if they jeopardize that, well u know what happen (e.g. Tuur-AUN- which a SNM leader, let me repeat this a SNM leader was kick out of the country because he dare to jeopardize the dream). One person is nothing compared to 4 million plus folks. Let me entertain you for a seconde and tell you on what might happen if the government of somalia create stability and peace. Somaliland government will be approach but they will only come to the table if their independance status will be recognise. Obviously Somalia government wont accept that thus a middle man will come in between them to avoid any conflict and war. Through negotiation wiht the middlemen (country) the referendum option will be the only viable solution. And as you know the overwhelming majority of somalilander wants that and even those that are moderaly against it due to skepticism, they will join on the band wagon once they realise that it is possible. For all of those that believe that my situation-example is not possible well be realistic will yourself i will answer.

Somaliweyn-iens forget about somaliland, greater somalia has died a long time ago and the sooner you realize that the sooner you will stop going to a psychiatrist thus saving money which could be used to funds hospitals and infrastructure in somalia. just teasing....and to CAli-gaab be more realistic, a union with the south will only continue to create more tension, more distasteful and hate between us and them in regards to how the government is manage, whos receiving what, what post are giving to this clan and so on. Our nation was created so we wont need to be part of those problems. We're happy and wish out brothers in the south the same happiness.


Salamu aleikum

P.S. Wouldnt be great to have a union organization such as european union where djibouti will be on beard. Free trade, open border, economic and security partnersip. I believe that will the best thing to happen, to each his own government (which will create less tension and conflicts) but helping each others in important aspects.

[Siciid85]

@countrywoman. loool..laila it's siciid not saciido ok.

You've made strong argument btw.

[lali99]

@countrywoman. loool..laila it's siciid not saciido ok.

You've made strong argument btw.

sorry bro...keep the dream alive by the way...

[Siciid85]

It's alive and well. Love somaliland.

[Cali_Gaab]

When it comes to referendum, democratically, it is only in the region that in question that gets to vote (e.g. kosovo, Quebec in canada and most of the eastern europe after the fall of the soviet union.

Like i explained before, Kosovo is in the heart of Europe and had to get recognised. Refer back to my reply that you replied to. The Soviet Union break up was in the interest of the United States as well as western europe. No longer would that entity form a threat or call the shots. A move welcomed by the west and the rest of Europe.

Somaliland is not a priority and quite frankly you have not convinced anyone or made a valid point, neither have you dissaproved my theory.