The Evolution non-debate??

[Niya]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123724852205449221.html

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

sometimes i think evolutionists might be on to something and they evolved from apes

[FAH1223]

Harun Yahya

its funny how people will accept a theory as true

[Basra-]

"In 1986, Mr. Oktar published his first book, "Freemasonry and Judaism," a tirade against the perils of atheism. He then spent 10 months in a mental hospital"


I want to read this book that made Oktar the anti darwinian get locked in a mental hospital. What is the percentage of muslims in Turkey? The very difference between a religiouslist and an atheist is the mode of their thinking when it comes to religion. An atheist thinks with his brain, a religious person, no matter what religion-- christian, muslim, jew, budhist-- they think with their very complex organ called the " heart". You can call this heart "Faith" as well. A central belief separate from the analytical organ called the 'brain".The atheists, mainly love to doubt, to think- they are empty, soul-less individual who have stopped in believing. Dont u agree Niya aka Oxy?



Oktar needs to chill. He needs to quote Quran more than he does fossils.

[LaQaNyO]

sometimes i think evolutionists might be on to something and they evolved from apes

No lie my former lecturer of Social psych was called Dr Ape.. the Irony in that.. he was a Nigerian guy and always hesitated to bring up the topic of evolutionary psychology maskiinka..

[Ureysoo]

Fah...

Well, someone got 2 tell them a theory remains nothing but hypothesis with no scientific justifications, Lol. If I form a theory on how, certain Somalis feet got bigger due 2 the environmental changes – would u lot accept it as an underlying truth?. Well, the same measurements should be applied 2 a theory, which couldn't clarify the starting point of life, let alone giving an in depth scientific explanation on how it actually developed, Lol.

My dear Basra...

I think u forgot “Fitra” = "the innate human nature” and the built-in ability 2 know one's Creator (which is often corrupted by the society and parents). The funny thing is – I saw this leaflet which said --- “I fear no one, and I shall enjoy life as desired” written by a bloody atheist encouraging atheist-campaign and standards of living. I kind of ask myself – How does they feel when they see a family member/friend dying?. Can't they tell there's a starting and ending point?. If they were so powerful, reaching and capable of determining their fate – why can't they extend their life or paint their entire life as they desire?, Lol....

[Basra-]

Ureeyson...


You are confusing yourself---a muslim believer with an atheist---such as Fah.

"How does they feel when they see a family member/friend dying?. Can't they tell there's a starting and ending point?. If they were so powerful, reaching and capable of determining their fate – why can't they extend their life or paint their entire life as they desire?, Lol...."


Ureeyso u miss the psychic of an atheist. Atheists and believers see death of a family differently. While both grieve equally-since they are after all-.."Humans" their introspection on death is different. Atheists view death as an 'ending point'.The end of an artificial automatic self made life that existed on earth and ended due to some intellectual explanation. Believers, believer God has surmoned the deceased. Atheists rationally think everything with a beginning has an ending,And when they end, they really end. A muslim, or a believer, does not think ..'ending point'. In fact, contrary to the atheists- they think- death is the beginning of a journey beyond earth. Atheists cannot fully 'feel' anything beyond their habbitual doubtful intellect. Their intellect instructs them to doubt, to think rationally, they have no soul to instruct them to 'believe' in the here after.

[Ureysoo]

Basra...

U actually explained it further, but did not come up with different notion. If u read my last paragraph – It said, "if they are powerful and reaching why can't they determine their fate” -- This therefore --- draw us 2 the same standing – if they can not control their destiny – they are not so powerful and obviously there's someone else structuring their life (they actually accepted this, by knowing there's an ending-point). As 4 the afterlife – sorry, but atheist are not believers of afterlife and not fond of the whole standpoint. One of my atheist Uni-mate once told me -- what's the point of having an afterlife (let alone heaven and hell), why can't u lot remain in this life) . Well, perhaps, they believe they reached the expiry date, and had 2 give out the space 4 another evolved creature, Lol... Just like the starting point of life, "Life and Death" has no explanation 2 them. It's like skipping the 1st chapter of a story, and starting the reading from the middle, 2 only ditch the book before reading the last chapter, Loool....

[Hoowle]

why do people always conflate Evolution Theory and Atheism? Atheism is personal believe system that rejects the existence of particular God/s. Evolution Theory is bonafide scientific theory. what's more, evolution theory is the central organizing principle of all life sciences. you can't today do biology, biochemistry, zoology, paleontology and all the other life sciences without evolution theory -- it underpins all those life science disciplines. there are literally 10s of thousands of scientists in the life sciences whose work demonstrates on almost daily basis the validity of evolution theory. as a rational and empiricist person, who do you think I will believe? the scientists with their theories (reason) and empirical evidences or superstitious polemicists who defend sectarian dogma?

secondly, theories EXPLAIN FACTS, they are NOT facts. there is a difference between explanatory frameworks that attempt to explain facts and the facts themselves. even if Evolution theory turns out to be false tomorrow, the FACT of evolution will still be true. so there is really no substance to the quibble that evolution theory is "just a theory." so is theory gravity (but you don't doubt theory of gravity, why is that?). rational people can tell apart human conceptualization of the real world from THE real world itself (objective facts). sadly those more magical-thinking inclined have hard time according to my personal experience. which raises the interesting question, why bother yourself with these types of topics if you don't possess the intellectual maturity to separate yourself, what out believe and the objective world?

lastly, Adnan Otkar aka Harun Yahya is veritable creationist crackpot. all his arguments are cribbed from Christian creationists, which is not unexpected considering his faith. he merely dressed them up in Islamic garb and fed them to gullible muslims who are all too willing to accept anything that reinforces their faith system. rather than engage their intellect in the pursuit of truth, they've wholly surrendered it to religious dogma. nothing of what this charlatan says can stand up to critical scrutiny never mind scientific one.

the whole motivation behind Muslim/Christian questioning of Evolution theory is religious dogma. their respective faiths propagate an alternate theory of the history of living organism on planet earth. and these two diamterically opposed theories -- evolution and special creation -- can not co-exist. one has to be true and the other false as they contradict each other.

Muslims and Christians believe in the theory of Special Creation. in other words, God created the world and everything in it from nothing; hence creation [i]ex nihilo[/i]. this theory has been the reigning paradigm until evolution theory. they also believe in flat and stationary earth with the sun revolving around it. all these believes and more have been disproved by science. but reactionaries, as is always the case, have hard time accepting change and progress. they want man to go back to the days of superstition, magical thinking, days where old certainties reigned supreme. it is their inability to cope with modernity and progressive ideas (be it cultural, scientific, political etc) that makes them take up reactionary posture. think of all the religious fundamentalists: jewish (Israel), Hindu (extremist VJP party in India), muslim (Osama bin laden and the 40 wahabists) and christians (evangelicals in the US). all want to take mankind back to old days that have been made redundant. they will not succeed.

[Voltage]

Evolution is 100% false. Another Turkish doctor was gagged recently when he asked the Darwin conference to provide ONE, just ONE transitional form between humans and apes. Scientists have founds millions and millions of human fossils but not ONE transitional form between humans and apes which we would have much evidence for if evolution is real.

Look how they gagged him and this is a SCIENTIFIC conference where asking questions is the foundation of everything:

When Oktar Babuna, a Turkish doctor and ally of prominent Turkish anti-Darwin campaigner Harun Yahya (who has become famous in recent years) asked for the floor to put forward a question to proponents of the theory of evolution about whether they had found any transitional forms - an integral part of the theory of evolution - during a congress about evolution he was told he didn’t have the right to ask any questions and removed from the congress altogether...

Babuna wanted to ask about these transitional forms. “Can you show us transitional forms?” he asked. As Reuters correctly reports, ‘after he began speaking two professors on the dias, Francisco J. Ayala of the University of California at Irvine and Douglas Futuyma of the State University of New York were visibly irritated. Someone in the hall can be heard saying “turn the microphone off” and seconds later two organisers approached Babuna. One of them abruptly took the microphone away from Babuna and another ordered him to go back to his seat.’

http://www.poligazette.com/2009/03/06/t ... evolution/
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/200 ... onference/


The bigget hoax the world has ever seen.

[Ureysoo]

Hoowle....

Lool@ a Theory which couldn't explain the 1st step – the formation of life, is now considered as “the central of all life sciences”. It's like saying BRIDGET JONES story reflects the lifestyle of all western ppl?!!. Beside, this how do u explain the thought of life arising of random environmental phenomenon. Basically, saying life arose of the fusion of living object with non-living/lifeless object?. If that standpoint, happens 2 be true, how come they are yet struggling 2 validate how such reaction and fusion can create one protein, let alone a living thing. Theories= reasons?. If I form a theory, and back it up with random clarification (with no scientific substantiation) would u adopt it?.

---

Secondly, theories EXPLAIN FACTS, they are NOT facts

---

Theories clarifies issues, and not necessarily FACTS. That's why we refer 2 it as HYPOTHESIS = “A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation”.

Thus, it remains as observations, and insightful thoughts in regard 2 a subject matter.

---

Even if Evolution theory turns out to be false tomorrow, the FACT of evolution will still be true

---

Pardon me!!!. How can an observation with no further investigation or scientific validation remain as a FACT?. It will remain as AN ONE”S EXPLANATION.

Beside, the theory of gravity, was validated, and the signs of it is witnessed after all. Above all that, it's explained in the Quran too. Can u say forming a life of the fusion of lifeless object and a living one 2 create life is witnessed, or has a scientific justification?. If this not MAGIC, then God knows what the hell it is!!!. If I put a rock and bacteria in one place, do u think a human will be created?. Why jump from the 1st stage, and clarify how creatures evolved, when the Initial is missing?. Or the starting-point is supposed 2 remain mythical?. If there's some sort of scientific explanation, then care 2 inform us.

FLAT earth and sun surrounding it?!!!, Lol. I doubt whether u know, anything about religions. If u want me 2 quote Quranic verses explaining the shape of the earth and how the sun and moon rotates around it – just ask. Instead of fabricating it, SXB....

[Voltage]

Also I don't know about you but Harun Yahya seems be using all science to debase the hoax of evolution:




QUESTION: If there is no evolution, how come bacteria become resistant to, let’s say, penicillin?

ADNAN OKTAR: The genetic information that establishes resistance to penicillin in bacteria existed before the manufacture of antibiotics. The concept of “development of resistance” is thus an erroneous one. Ever since the moment they were first created, the bacteria in question have possessed the genes that have allowed their bodies to combat antibiotics of various kinds. They have been armed against a threat before they have ever seen it. Resistant bacteria are not organisms that appeared later spontaneously, by chance. They did not acquire new information or genes they did not possess before by chance. These bacteria are the same perfect bacteria that have always had the same perfect, penicillin-resistant genes.

Allah created bacteria equipped with a resistance to a danger they never knew existed in the outside world. That is a miracle. The fact that a bacterium is resistant to a foreign substance shows it was perfectly created. No chance can bring about this extraordinary resistance system that currently exists in bacteria. The perfection of these organisms points only to Allah’s sublime artistry.

QUESTION: DNA is a pretty good historian when it comes to evolution. How do you for example explain the human chromosome 2? How do you explain the telomere markers there, and how this fusion compares to Chimp chromosome 13 (where Chimps have 48 chromosomes compared to our 46)? We know exactly where this fusion occurred in our genome. This is clear evidence for a common ancestor.

ADNAN OKTAR: Chromosome 2 (the fusion of two chromosomes) in human beings is a genetic disorder that occurs at a rate of only 1/1000. In order to explain the giant gap such as chimpanzee having 48 chromosomes and human beings having 46 chromosomes, science is being biasedly distorted by Darwinists, and they try to show chromosome 2 in human beings as an evidence for the imaginary common ancestor. However, there exists no evolution here. The fusion that happens in human chromosome (the fusion of two chromosomes) is not an evolution but a disorder that causes handicap and even death of an individual. The most familiar example is the Down Syndrome. The scientific experiments so far have revealed that this fusion delivers no benefits; on the contrary it brings forth unhealthy mutants or infertile individuals. That Darwinists try to present a disorder as a proof for evolution indicates the great pitiful state they are in.

Besides, it is extremely illogical and groundless to look to similarities between chromosome numbers or genomes in order to maintain the deception that human beings evolved from chimpanzees. In terms of genome sequence, there is a 75% similarity between human beings and nematode worms. In terms of chromosome numbers, on the other hand; the genus Peromyscus, or the species commonly referred to as deer mice, potato and tobacco have also 48 chromosomes. The chromosome number of human beings, on the other hand, is 46, as in the example of, Lepus europaeus, a species of hare. But one would never see any reference to these details in Darwinist publications. However, on that basis, human beings can resemble the chimpanzee only as closely as they do the potato or tobacco plant.

Beyond all that, if the claim of a “common ancestor” were true, then we should have transitional fossils to hand. We should be able to find millions of intermediate fossils and they should be demonstrating the different stages of this imaginary transition everywhere we look. To date scientists have discovered more than 100 million fossils. But NOT ONE IS A TRANSITIONAL FORM. That is why Darwinists have only been able to come up with false fossil skulls in support of supposed evolution of man. They have all been proved to be deceptions and have all been removed from the scientific literature. In the absence of the slightest scientific evidence, there is nothing in the imaginary claim of human evolution that can still be espoused.

QUESTION: How do you account for Endogenous Retro Viruses (ERVs), and the markers they have left in inheritable genes? You can clearly "trace" ancestry using these ERV markers. How do you explain these markers that are the same in Human and Chimp DNA? The odds of this happening as many times as they have are mind-boggling. How do you explain how well it can be traced down a phylogenetic tree? How can this be explained by anything but common ancestry?

ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinists have the tendency to interpret ERVs (endogenous retroviruses) as a heretic legacy from our imaginary ape forebears. They claim that retroviruses, which make up 8 percent of human genome, were active in the past but, undergoing some mutations, lost their functions, and were left to human genome from the imaginary ape forebear as junk DNA.

First; ERVs exist not only in chimpanzee genome but in the genome of all mammals living all over the world. Presenting ERVs’ presence in chimpanzee as an evidence for alleged human evolution is a serious defeat of logic.

Second; according to Darwinists ERVs should be junk inherited from imaginary ape forebears. However, new findings have refuted this important Darwinist claim. ERVs have functions and assume three important roles in human cell. 1) gene regulation 2) formation of placenta 3) formation of disorders such as cancer, infertility. That ERVs are not junk DNA definitely eliminates all Darwinist claims.

The reason why Darwinists claim they can trace the ancestor of human beings by way of the genes in question but make no initiatives at all is that the forerunner of human beings millions of years ago was also a HUMAN BEING. They are afraid of this coming out. That is why they resort to demagoguery rather than the evidence.

What Darwinists need to do is to produce evidence of the claim of a common ancestor, rather than repeating the demagoguery of “common genes are evidence of a common ancestor.” But the fossil record, the only source of evidence, refutes that claim. It is not hard to find traces of ancestors in the fossil record. As a matter of fact, these traces have been found. As we go back in time with fossil traces we see that the forerunner of human beings was a human being, the forerunner of the chimpanzee was the chimpanzee, the forerunner of the chicken was the chicken and that the forerunner of the frog was another frog. Living things have never changed. THERE EXISTS NOT A SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FORM FOSSIL to confirm the claims of Darwinists, who maintain that organisms evolved from one another through “large” or “small” changes.

Newly-discovered fossil human footprints dating back 1.5 million years, to a time when Darwinists claim ape-men were living, have again documented the total collapse of Darwinism. It is in conflict with science to try to deceive people using demagogic tactics in the face of this fact.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/nationen/article1136129.ece

[Kolombo]

Harun Yahya's lectures in MP3 format, FREE:

http://aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.a ... arun_Yahya

[Galool09]

Basra Cow wrote:
"Ureeyso u miss the psychic of an atheist. Atheists and believers see death of a family differently. While both grieve equally-since they are after all-.."Humans" their introspection on death is different. Atheists view death as an 'ending point'.The end of an artificial automatic self made life that existed on earth and ended due to some intellectual explanation. Believers, believer God has surmoned the deceased. Atheists rationally think everything with a beginning has an ending,And when they end, they really end."

Please lets all give Mrs Cow a five finger clap for making such simple statement that only intelligent people can grasp.


Caasha Urtooy's reply was:

"Basra...

U actually explained it further, but did not come up with different notion. If u read my last paragraph – It said, "if they are powerful and reaching why can't they determine their fate” -- This therefore --- draw us 2 the same standing – if they can not control their destiny – they are not so powerful and obviously there's someone else structuring their life (they actually accepted this, by knowing there's an ending-point)."

Charming in a retarded dhabayo way, but Mrs qadhmuun has failed to make a coherent reply. What has atheists' vision of death as 'the end' got to do with them being powerful, or for that matter controlling their destiny? Ma luuqadda ingiriisiga ayaa 12 shub ugu dhacda mise cudur la yidhaahdo "selective stubidhnimo" ayey qabtaa??



She eloquetly went on to say:

"As 4 the afterlife – sorry, but atheist are not believers of afterlife and not fond of the whole standpoint."

Well duhh.. what did you think Mrs cow was trying to tell you?



"One of my atheist Uni-mate once told me -- ----------"


Ok, caasha, please, enough is enough... stop it for the love of god and for your own good; beacuse should you keep arguing with Mrs Cow, she will come out of the closet and destroy you in the blink of an eye. Fat lady is just too smart for you.



Ok, everyone lets at least give caasha urtooy a 1 finger clap for trying shall we.

[Basra-]

Ureysoo u r confusing me.My atheist husband...."Mr. Cow" up there supports my suspicion. I dont know whether it is from low Intelligent Quotent or simply u r concealing your hidden undeclared self.Can you state your own simple opinion-- Are you pro evolution or pro Islam? I wont go so ambitious enough to call you a muslim---yet.



Hoowle


"Evolution Theory is bonafide scientific theory."



Well...one can argue Evolution is just another word for human development. It doesnt necessarily remove "God" out of the equation. Wilipedia defines Evolution in 'biological' term...




"In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection. Genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences in their traits. When organisms reproduce, their offspring may have new or altered traits. These new traits arise in two main ways: either from mutations in genes, or from the transfer of genes between populations and between species. "



So basically, evolution--- deriving from the word----'evolve' can simply mean-- primitive man evolving into modern man. This evolution theory can also mean, man changes due to geographic and climatical circumastances. For instance--- inhabitants of west african indeginous humans looking ape like, and the irish inhabitants looking more like pale pointy nose pinokio. Its all relative. For all i know-- evolution can be dated back to the first man on earth--- Prophet Adam.Hoowle--why are you denying your atheism? I thought atheists are individualists. Every atheists runs away from this name--are they running out of shame, stigma or just plaion al' cowardice?