SomaliNet Forums

Somalis, pat yourselves on the back, you are not the most inferior race on Earth.

It took me a while to come to this conclusion but I've realized that we are nothing like Afghanistan. When the civil war happened, no Afghans took action to build maamul. It took the efforts of Pakistan, Russia, and the United States to try and build a maamul for Afghans during the two decade civil war, that is still ongoing.

During the wake of the civil war in Somalia, the northwesterners made their own maamul immediately, realizing they had no role in the lawless south. Just months later, the northeasterners realized that no savior was going to come and save them so they began building the foundations for their own maamul, setting up executive and judicial branches, police forces, a navy, rallying militias into a regional army, and provided a safe zone for businesses to thrive.

Sure, Kabul looks way better than Xamar, but only because its the capital of 30 million people with countless connections to the outside world - like Paki investors for example. Somalia is still light-years ahead of Afghanistan, especially with Taliban rule that is 100 times more conservative than Al-Shabaab.

They are alike in one major characteristic though. A centralized authority will never rule both countries.

Paidmonk,

I disagree:

Afghanistan always had continuous central authority, a standing airforce, army, a Central Bank, Diplomatic Missions unlike Somalia.

Unlike Somalia, there were no Bantustans established by Afghanistan's neighbors nor do any regional leaders go to their Neighbor's capitals to sign treaties or seek stronger ties. It was only the central government that had that authority.

For God's sake, the Afghan internet domain is active. Their embassies have not been repossessed nor are their passports sold in markets

FAH1223 wrote:They are alike in one major characteristic though. A centralized authority will never rule both countries.

FAH,

The Taliban controlled 92% of the nation and would have seized the remaining 8% if 911 did not happen. They focked up by hosting the idiot UBL.

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Paidmonk,

I disagree:

Afghanistan always had continuous central authority, a standing airforce, army, a Central Bank, Diplomatic Missions unlike Somalia.

Unlike Somalia, there were no Bantustans established by Afghanistan's neighbors nor do any regional leaders go to their Neighbor's capitals to sign treaties or seek stronger ties. It was only the central government that had that authority.

For God's sake, the Afghan internet domain is active. Their embassies have not been repossessed nor are their passports sold in markets

AbdiWahab252 wrote:

FAH,

The Taliban controlled 92% of the nation and would have seized the remaining 8% if 911 did not happen. They focked up by hosting the idiot UBL.

its not going to happen again, that woulda been the first time in 20-30 years one authority came over them

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Paidmonk,

I disagree:

Afghanistan always had continuous central authority, a standing airforce, army, a Central Bank, Diplomatic Missions unlike Somalia.

Unlike Somalia, there were no Bantustans established by Afghanistan's neighbors nor do any regional leaders go to their Neighbor's capitals to sign treaties or seek stronger ties. It was only the central government that had that authority.

For God's sake, the Afghan internet domain is active. Their embassies have not been repossessed nor are their passports sold in markets

FAH,

Whoever controls Kabul and the surrounding 200kms of it rules the nation, period. Rural backwaters don't account for much if you have the capital and surrounding regions under your command.

AW252, Afghanistan's last central authority was 1979. The problem with Afghanistan is that its very solid by name. They have embassies in every country, they have legitimacy, etc. etc. etc. Only because their neighbors are CHINA, RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, INDIA, and IRAN!! Does Somalia have neighbors like that? Those nations don't care if Afghanistan is a shit hole, so long as Afghanistan is recognized as a republic.

But Afghanistan is legit only on paper, the Afghans are animals. In 1993, Afghanistan had a president with authority in two neighborhoods in Kabul, and 3 warlords who ruled the other 90% of the capital. Did Massoud, Rabbani, and Hekmatyar ever build maamuls for their people? Answer that. Did those 3 ever even try to take part in Najibullah's government or Rabanni's government? No. Even Ali Mahdi, Yalaxow, and Qeybdiid took part in Somali governments for whatever reasons.

The point is, Somalia's superiority over Afghanistan lies in local works. It lies in maamuls (Somaliland, Puntland, Galmudug, Ximan iyo Xeeb). Was there a single attempt by Afghan local populations to restore law in their parts of the country before the Taliban came along?

Just because its not documented doesn't mean Somalia wasn't experiencing progress.

Mogadisho somalia










somalida wax ka liita ma jirto dunnida sabbabto aah afganistan maraykan baa wareeraay and see how they look somaliya ya wareeray ee baas oo ahayn 2 sannoh eeh Ethiopiaanku joogeen afganistan if its destroyed and shit got a good excuuse maraykan ba ku su duulay.

Paidmonk,

The Rural areas were always under the authority of traditional leaders even during the Pre1979 era. Tribal law held over there.

Even during the worst of time, Afghanistan had an effective Central Government which represented it on the international stage.

The so called mamuuls are nothing but Ethiopian bantustans whose leaders pay homage to Addis Ababa and function like separate nations.

AbdiWahab252 wrote:The so called mamuuls are nothing but Ethiopian bantustans whose leaders pay homage to Addis Ababa and function like separate nations.

That's a fact, no disputing it. But these maamuls take care of their people. They are explicitly setup to aid local communities. I've never heard of an Afghan maamul. They were all after self-interest, not for their qabiil nor the pride of their community.

Paidmonk,

I do concede that Afghanistan is more valuable in terms of its geography and is in a better neighborhood than Somalia.

As for the Afghan mamuuls, the reason you don't hear much of them is that they have more effective central authorities unlike Somalia which did not have one since 1990. When there is no defacto central authority, the Bantustans become the only alternative for the INt'l community to deal with on Somali issues.

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Paidmonk,

I do concede that Afghanistan is more valuable in terms of its geography and is in a better neighborhood than Somalia.

As for the Afghan mamuuls, the reason you don't hear much of them is that they have more effective central authorities unlike Somalia which did not have one since 1990. When there is no defacto central authority, the Bantustans become the only alternative for the INt'l community to deal with on Somali issues.

The Bantustans are better to deal with and more easy to deal with than Afghan warlords-turned-presidents. You have to understand these Afghan central rulers only controlled Kabul. They had no effect on Hazarajat, Kandahar, or the Panjshir.

Afghan central authority is identical to TFG; only controlling the capital. Somalis currently have TFG in the capital PLUS the local maamuls. Afghans only had one of those, the former which served no real use.

Paidmonk,

It sort of boils down to whether you want local Bantustani rule that does not promote national interests, provide no diplomatic work/security for expats, no monetary policy control, etc.

I prefer a weak national authority over no national authority at all.

I guess we're different on that. I used to favor central authority but sometimes central authority is absolutely impossible. Let the Afghans try for the next 50 years if central authority will work, I'd rather see a thriving federation like UAE or former Italy or Malaysia or Belgium.