Can Shiites be called Muslims?

[Abdi_westldn]

Shiitism belief in Imams and why it is KUFR:
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"Signs of the prophets are possessed by the Imams" (Ibid, p. 231.)

"The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.)

"The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice" (Ibid, p: 258.)

"The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, prophets and messengers" (Al-Kulaini, Al-kaafi, p.255.)

"By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185)

"All the Imams are infallible just like the prophets. The Shi'ites derive their religion from their immaculate Imams" (Ibid, p. 22)

"The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed" (Ibid, p. 227.)

"No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge' (Ibid, p. 228)

"There is not a single truth possessed by a people save that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false" (Ibid, p.277.)

"When the Imams' time comes, they will rule in accordance with the ruling of the prophet David and his dynasty. These Imams will not need to ask for presentation of evidence before passing their judgments" (Ibid,p. 397.

[SultanOrder]

They are MUSLIMS END OF STORY!!!

[nomadicwarlord]

Yes, they are Muslims.

[Abdi_westldn]

They are MUSLIMS END OF STORY!!!

"By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185)

Really and I thought the Qayb was something only Allah knows\,something which is included in the 6 pillars of Iman. To say they are msulims end of story doesn't suffice because they don't even believe in the present day Quran matter of fact there are over 200 Shiite hadeeths that state that the Quran today is fabricated.

[SultanOrder]

They are MUSLIMS END OF STORY!!!

"By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185)

Really and I thought the Qayb was something only Allah knows\,something which is included in the 6 pillars of Iman. To say they are msulims end of story doesn't suffice because they don't even believe in the present day Quran matter of fact there are over 200 Shiite hadeeths that state that the Quran today is fabricated.

You could be confusing different sects of Shiites, but the ones like in Iraq and Iran and Saudi Arabia, are true Muslims and believe in Allah and his Apostle Muhammad scw, and the Qur'an, and in the salat, and in zakat, and in hajj, and in Ramadan. We should not worry about them and we cannot categorically deny them it is for Allah, and it is in his wisdom that Muslims are divided, so that we may unite not in our differences but in our similarities and leave everything else to Allah, If The issue has been like this for hundreds of years and we haven't denied them, then what makes you think we are any more capable. They are our Brothers though we feel that they are incorrect.

[Voltage]

I once said to a non-Muslim friend who asked me this question "No, I don't consider them Muslim" but I hope God can forgive because neither I nor anyone can pass judgment on any people who believe in him.

[Abdi_westldn]

They are MUSLIMS END OF STORY!!!

"By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185)

Really and I thought the Qayb was something only Allah knows\,something which is included in the 6 pillars of Iman. To say they are msulims end of story doesn't suffice because they don't even believe in the present day Quran matter of fact there are over 200 Shiite hadeeths that state that the Quran today is fabricated.

You could be confusing different sects of Shiites, but the ones like in Iraq and Iran and Saudi Arabia, are true Muslims and believe in Allah and his Apostle Muhammad scw, and the Qur'an, and in the salat, and in zakat, and in hajj, and in Ramadan. We should not worry about them and we cannot categorically deny them it is for Allah, and it is in his wisdom that Muslims are divided, so that we may unite not in our differences but in our similarities and leave everything else to Allah, If The issue has been like this for hundreds of years and we haven't denied them, then what makes you think we are any more capable. They are our Brothers though we feel that they are incorrect.

Ruunti the Shiaa's believe that all the Companions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.), the transmitters of the Qur'an, were liars. In addition, they belief that the Imams of the ahl al-Bait were also liars, and used to observe taqiyyah (religious dissimulation). Granted we cannot call them out as kufar's once they say La Illaha il Allah Wa Muhammadu Rasululah but it brings up an interesting discussion because Shiite's as a sect transgress on many fronts but aren't they closer to Catheloic Christians who put their Priests ruling in place of God(ie. Confessing your sins=forgiveness,Papal Ruling)? If I'm not mistaken there is a Hadeeth by the Prophet Mohammed(P.b.u.h) saying that Christians took their priests as God's which isn't to different with what the Shiites are doing with their Imams.

[Real_1]

What Do Scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah in the Past and Present say about Shia (Rafidah)? :

1) Imam Ash-Shafi'i: On one occasion Imam Shafi'i said concerning the Shia,

"I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidi* Shia." and on another occasion he said; "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except for the raafidi* Shia, because they invent ahadith and adopt them as part of their religion." (Minhaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah) *

(Some shia at the time of the Alid Imam Zayd ibn 'Ali demanded that he make a declaration of innocence (tabarra) from whoever disagreed with 'Ali's right to be Imam. When Zayd refused, they rejected him, and became known as the "raafida" or rejectors. Those who followed Imam Zayd became known as Zaydis, and have very little difference from mainstream Islam. The Raafidi evolved into the the various Imami shia sects, the largest of which is the Ithna 'Ashari.)

2) Imam Abu Hanifah: It is reported that often Imam Abu Hanifah used to repeat the following statement about the raafidi Shia; "Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."

3) Imam Malik: Once when asked about the raafidi Shia, Imam Malik said; "Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars." During one of Imam Malik's classes, it was mentioned that the raafidi Shia curse the sahaba. Imam Malik recited the verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." (48:29) He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the sahaba are mentioned is the one about whom the verse speaks." (Tafseer al-Qurtubi)

4) Abu Zur'ah ar-Razi: He said of the raafidi Shia doctrine of cursing the sahaba, "If you see someone degrade any of the companions of the ProphetSAWS know that he is a disbeliever. Because the ProphetSAWS was real, what he brought was the truth and all of it was conveyed to us by way of the sahaba. What those disbelievers wish to do is cast doubt on the reliability of our narrators in order to invalidate the Qur'an and Sunnah. Thus the disbelievers are the ones most deserving of defamation."

5) Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi: During the period of Muslim rule in Spain, Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm would often debate with the Catholic priests about their religious texts. He brought before them evidence of textual distortions in the Bible and the loss of the original manuscripts. When they replied by pointing out the Shia claims that the Qur'an has been distorted and altered, Ibn Hazm informed them that Shia claims were not valid evidence because the shia were not themselves muslims.

6) Imam Al-Alusi: He declared the raafidi Shia disbelievers because of their defamation of the sahaba. His position was based on the rulings of Imam Malik and other scholars. In response to their claim to be followers of the Ahl al-Bayt (the Prophet'sSAWS family) Al-Alusi said, "No, they are really followers of the devils and the Ahl al-Bayt are innocent of them."

7) Muhammad Rasheed Rida: This scholar was among those who worked sincerely for rapproachment between the shia and the sunni, and they in turn pretended moderation for his benefit. However, in the midst of his efforts, they caught him by surprise by presenting him with a number of their books which slander Islam. He then replied in a paper called As-Sunnah wa Ash-Shia in which he exposed their false doctrines and idolatrous practices.

8) Dr. Hilali: After living close to the shia for some years, the famous Moroccan scholar, Dr. Hilali wrote a paper on them in which he declared them to be disbelievers.

9) Abul-A'la Maududi: This great Pakistani scholar wrote an introduction to the book, "Ar-Riddah bain al-Ams wa al-Yaum" In it was written, regarding the Imami Ja'fari Shia, "despite their moderate views (relative to other shia sects), they are swimming in disbelief like white bloodcells in blood or like fish in water."

10) among the other contemporary scholars who have expressed similar views are: Sheikh Abdul 'Aziz ibn Baz, Sheikh Nassiraddin Al-Albani, Allama Ash-Shanqiti, Sheikh An-Nashashibi, Imam Ahmad Ameen, and Dr. Rashaad Salim.

More info on the Shia

http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?nam ... e&artid=73

[Abdi_westldn]

So I am not alone in questioning whether the Shiites are Muslims or not. Alhamdulilah its hard for the heart to stay settle when it truely believes in the disbelief of a fellow Muslim(shiites).

But why let them go to Hajj in Mecca, why not treat them like the Christians and Jews who want to visit Mecca& Medina? Even though Politically Sunni and Shiite Muslims have always been against each other since the time of choosing of Abu Baker as the Calipah but yet many of us continue to do trade with them or let them live in our countries(Suni nations) ie.Kuwait,Bahrain,Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

ps. The term Raafidi Shiia does it describe all Shiiaa's or is it a certain sec amongst them?

[moshakis_nl]

shiaa are not muslim .. end of story

[Real_1]

abdi i believe certain sects are more closer to the deen then others but on the other hand how can one tell who is who the shia's main tenets is taqqiyya or hiding their beliefs we should sunnis need to do some investigating and learning about these people then we can make appropriate actions against them

[Ganjaweed]

THESE PEOPLE ARE MUSLIM?

NO THANK YOU

[zingii]

Why ask such a question?
We are in no possition to judge
others on their BaLIIFS.

[Abdi_westldn]

abdi i believe certain sects are more closer to the deen then others but on the other hand how can one tell who is who the shia's main tenets is taqqiyya or hiding their beliefs we should sunnis need to do some investigating and learning about these people then we can make appropriate actions against them

Real I've just figured it out Raafidi basically means refuser which is used to describe those Shiia's who refused Abu Bakar ,Umar ibin Al Khatab and Uthman iBin Affan as Calipha's. They divide into three Ithna Asriyah(12)<--biggest branch of Shiia's,Ismaili and Zaidi these all are scattered all over the but are mainly in Iran and Iraq. They are the ones who practice chopping themselves up,pray on mud stones, Zawaj Al Muta(basically getting married for halal sex and then divorcing the lady after intercourse). etc etc.

[black velvet]

Did God appoint you to become Islam police? Iskuxishow Ilaahey kacabso