Anyone study engineering?

[Mad May]

Amid all the discussion of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and his activities prior to boarding flight 253 for Detroit, the fact that he spent three years in London studying mechanical engineering has attracted relatively little attention.

A degree in engineering has no obvious connection with terrorism or religious/political extremism – and yet some research published earlier this year suggests it may be highly relevant.

Looking at the educational background of known militants, Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog found that "engineers are three to four times as likely as other graduates to be present among the members of violent Islamic groups in the Muslim world since the 1970s". In fact, the engineers in their sample outnumbered graduates of Islamic studies by more than two to one.

Gambetta and Hertog then set about trying to explain these findings. After rejecting several hypotheses, they settled on two factors as "the most plausible explanation". One was the "relative deprivation" of engineers in Muslim countries and the other was what they called the "engineering mindset".

"Relative deprivation" happens when high expectations or ambitions run into high levels of frustration. In Muslim societies engineering is an elite profession and the entry requirements set by universities are correspondingly high. Engineering has also been promoted by governments in the Middle East and elsewhere as part of their rhetoric of modernisation and technocratic development.

The rhetoric, however, has not been matched by reality – and the researchers suggest it could be a radicalising factor:

Individuals with above-average skills selected on merit are, one would expect, particularly exposed to the frustration and the sense of injustice that comes from finding their professional future hampered by lack of opportunities. This happened on a large scale as a result of the economic and technological development failures that Middle Eastern countries have witnessed since the 1970s.

How much of this applies to Abdulmutallab as a Nigerian is unclear but, considering his privileged family background, it seems quite likely that he felt he was not getting the recognition he was entitled to.

More interesting, and perhaps more likely to apply to Abdulmutallab, is the "engineering mindset". The idea here is that engineering as a subject – unlike, say, history or literature – appeals to students who like to deal in certainties and adopt a rather mechanical view of the world. "A lot of piecemeal evidence," Gambetta and Hertog write, "suggests that characteristics such as greater intolerance of ambiguity, a belief that society can be made to work like clockwork, and dislike of democratic politics which involves compromise, are more common among engineers".

Is this preponderance of engineers something that applies only to violent Islamists, Gambetta and Hertog wondered, or can a similar pattern be found among other kinds of extremists?

Among 19th and 20th century anarchists in a variety of countries they found plenty of lawyers, philosophers and doctors but relatively few engineers. Analysis of leftwing revolutionaries since the second world war showed "engineers were never a significant presence" except in Turkey and Iran (the only two Muslim countries surveyed). Palestinian militants (of a non-Islamist variety) included some engineers but not a disproportionately high number.

Intriguingly, though, the engineering-extremism connection found among violent Islamists does seem to be replicated to some extent, though less strikingly, among extreme rightwing and neo-Nazi groups in Germany, Austria and the US.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ngineering

[paidmonk]

You try too hard to make unconnected points. You don't need to be a Muslim engineer to be different from the norm.

Engineers, be they Muslim or not, tend to be the least social bunch of any professional field and the most socially conservative college students. For one, its an almost-100% male major, leaving almost all engineers without any female contact during their studies. My roommate is a grad student and only had a dozen female classmates during his undergrad years.

--

This is why women should stay in the kitchen.

[grandpakhalif]

oh damn im going to study engineering

[IRONm@N]

I have observed this two, three of the boys killed in Somalia from Minneapolis, were studying engineering in college, ppl like Jamal Bana etc.

There is something depressing about engineering. too much math and physics, it's considered the hardest major in college. you won't have a social life, you will get three times the work load other students get, while other students are partying and enjoying, you won't even have a time to date a girl. even worse most of the engineering classes are 99% males, most of them from India, China, Middle east and Africa.

So you have isolation, single, too much problem solving and analyzing which causes frustration, and less social. you turn into a nerd that isn't good with the ladies and dating.

I changed my mind a long time ago, I wanted to go to engineering, but after doing research, I realize that isn't what I want to do.

[Mad May]

My social science degree might not make me wealthy, but at least it wont destroy my soul and rob me of my humanity

[DANGIRL]

My social science degree might not make me wealthy, but at least it wont destroy my soul and rob me of my humanity

What is your social science major?

[Mad May]

My social science degree might not make me wealthy, but at least it wont destroy my soul and rob me of my humanity

What is your social science major?

Politics

[grandpakhalif]

My social science degree might not make me wealthy, but at least it wont destroy my soul and rob me of my humanity

What is your social science major?

Politics

Women don't belong in this field, you will be marginalized and deemed incompetent

[DANGIRL]

My social science degree might not make me wealthy, but at least it wont destroy my soul and rob me of my humanity

What is your social science major?

Politics

I've always had a great interest in political science while in high school, but i chose to major in Psychology instead. Good choice though.

[Voltage]

From what I have seen 85% of all male Muslim students of Pakistani and Arab origin are studying engineering. Sometimes it feels like 99.99% percent. One of current roommates is an international student from Dubai and he is studying solar engineering. I did not even know there was a field in solar engineering before him. So when you look at all of this, do you think philosophy majors are going to be as visible in the subset of these students who do become radical? No, the subset is going to mirror the general population and engineers are going to feature very prominently as a result of this.

[Firewall]

quote]
Politics[/quote]


I've always had a great interest in political science while in high school, but i chose to major in Psychology instead. Good choice though.[/quote]

dangirl

i need ur help
ur the closest thing we have to a mental healt specialist

here my symptoms

loss of interest in things i use to like
loss of apatite
hopelessness--i missed one of my exams and i dont even feel guilty.....
easily angered/moody
social anxiety--i dont like talking to ppl or them to even look at me---i get very paranoid when am with ppl and when i leave----i always think their talking about me
lack of sleep---i could sleep 10 hours and i still feel tired
my mind is racing---i make fantasy scenarios in my head and i get so caught up in them that i actually start taking to myself---i make up different personalities

help

help

[FAH1223]

From what I have seen 85% of all male Muslim students of Pakistani and Arab origin are studying engineering. Sometimes it feels like 99.99% percent. One of current roommates is an international student from Dubai and he is studying solar engineering. I did not even know there was a field in solar engineering before him. So when you look at all of this, do you think philosophy majors are going to be as visible in the subset of these students who do become radical? No, the subset is going to mirror the general population and engineers are going to feature very prominently as a result of this.

Wallahi I was just about to post this. Shid, I would say 70 some odd percent of Muslim males IN GENERAL are studying engineering. Since the one field you will see many Muslims in is engineering, is it any surprise these radicals just happen to be engineers? No, of course not.

This also tells you something though!

In fact, the engineers in their sample outnumbered graduates of Islamic studies by more than two to one.

[Firewall]

well, most of these nut jobs are making home made bombs and shit and do u really think an english major has the knowledge to make one?

[S-D-M]

Wallahi only slow people study Political science, history, business etc.......The once that could not handle school usually take those classes. I know a lots of them and believe me they are slow people when it comes to education.....the real education physical Science and math

[Firewall]

why study math?
if ur good at math go into engineering
actuarial science