Twisted-Dameer

[sadeboi]

Be a man, quit hiding for months, and trying to refute these arguments. The little history you tried to paint as your clans were single-handedly shut down by me:

viewtopic.php?f=250&t=229790&hilit=lafo ... &start=135

viewtopic.php?f=249&t=227586&start=360

[Twisted_Logic]

The only thing that was ever proved was the history of your clan as levies and political prostitutes for the British. Unlike you, my clan actually FOUGHT against the colonizers. Not enroll as levies and attack patriotic clans like the Ogadeen by fighting as levies. And "useless levies" at that too.

Hawiye is a genealogical group and NO I am not going to take your little assertion serious. This doesn't mean what you take it for. It means that you are pathetic to the point that I wouldn't respond to your silly claims. Hawiye was the FIRST Group of Somalis to be mentioned in the history books. Your clan was being mentioned as subclans. That alone tells us who the confederation is.

Quit being a BOON and get on with the show

[sadeboi]

You're clan was used by 2 arab translators to get their job back, and some bend over the british. How come you could not reply back with months going by?

What book? Do you even know your genealogy? I know from my father to my 34 grandfather and can explain the clan structure of my clan, every one of us can. None of your people, even the oldest know your abtiris. Show me the book where your clan is mentioned.

[union]

"My clan is better than your clan"

"No, my clan is better than your clan. I even know all my grandfathers 34 generations back."


You both sound kinda immature.

[Twisted_Logic]

You're clan was used by 2 arab translators to get their job back, and some bend over the british. How come you could not reply back with months going by?

What book? Do you even know your genealogy? I know from my father to my 34 grandfather and can explain the clan structure of my clan, every one of us can. None of your people, even the oldest know your abtiris. Show me the book where your clan is mentioned.

I said everything that needs to be said about Lafoole on that thread. Let the members read it and judge it. A clan that served as a levies for the colonizers doesn't get to question the motives of a clan that actually fought and killed the leaders of the colonizers

But, let's talk about your clan. The levies and the prostitutes

Meanwhile, Marehan levies conscripted to help the British with the seized Aulihan stock had scrambled off with many captured animals to the embarrassment of colonial officials. More importantly, this inability to control the Marehan illustrated just how little control the colonial state exercised on the northeast frontier. This example of Somali resistance certainly would make the British think twice about imposing their dictates in the northeast for some years to come. Indeed, the presence of so-called recalcitrant Somalis there had much to do with the nature of the cession of Jubaland to Italy in 1925. Potential Somali opposition to the imposition of taxation likewise delayed effective collection until the early-1930s.

Yet, back in May, not everyone had been persuaded that the time was propitious to reoccupy Serenli. Most importantly, Lieutenant General Arthur Reginald Hoskins, who had replaced Smuts as Commander-in-Chief of East African Forces in January, had demurred. Lettow's Schutztruppe by then had been pushed far south below the Rufiji River so that Hoskins's reasons for hesitation had mainly to do with the situation in the northeastern frontier. He wondered if Barrett had all the information he needed, and expressed concern about the reliability of the colonel's sources. When Hoskins further considered the number of troops that would be necessary to retake and hold Serenli, he decided to oppose the proposed action. Fortuitously, it was at that very time that Field Marshal Sir William Robertson, pressured by Smuts and apparently hoping to appease South African political interests, relieved Hoskins of his command in East Africa and replaced him with an Afrikaner, Lieutenant General Louis Jacobus van Deventer. 107 Charles Bowring believed he saw an opportunity to reestablish British prestige in the north and moved to assert himself on the issue with his chief opponent out of the way. He turned to London and asked that the matter be put before the War Office and be treated as urgent. 108 Referring the question to the military command for its views, the CO took Bowring's side in the matter, reasoning that, "An adequate show of force [was] the only thing that [would] keep the frontier tribes in order." 109

Mentioned in despatches for Jubaland 1917-18.

By Keith Steward FRGS

As a result of the affirmative action taken by Lieut. Colonel WEH Barrett to re-occupySerenli in September 1917, the rebel leader Geydu Aulihan had been defeated. Spies however reported that the Auhilan were divided about whether to submit to British authority or continue with their rebellion. The difficulty arose from the fact that submission involved a heavy fine of cattle that had to be paid. A large party of the disaffected Aulihan led by Rer Afgab and Rer Wafatu decided to break out of Serenli via Damassa. This they did in November 1917 and headed in the direction the Juba River, camping in the area around Jabir and Sereneli. Captain O Martin was ordered to obtain scouts, reliable guides, baggage camels and local Marehan Levies in readiness for pursuit of the rebels

The inland column under Colour Sergeant Farah Rageh of G Company was sent out on the night of December 20th/21st for Karap. There were 30 rank & file (15 from G Company & 15 mounted infantry), with 230 Marehan riflemen and 45 spearmen. Their instructions were to move parallel with the river Juba. No 2 column left the following morning. The following officers were in the group under Captain Martin, Captain J Osborn, Lieutenants EN Erskine, EM Ritchie, CF Henry, Captain Welch (Medical Officer) and Native Officer Abdi Sheriff Ahmed. There were 60 Somali rank & file from G and the mounted infantry company, 120 Swahili’s from C & E companies, 24 Government Somali Scouts (Illaloes), 18 rank and file from F company, 300 Marehan Levies and two Lewis guns.

Number 2 column proceeded down the Juba River as far as Malkaadi, halting on the 22nd to await the arrival of the inland party. Later news reached the camp that No 1 column had captured a large quantity of enemy camels, but was being attacked by Auhilan in force. The Marehan Levies had bolted, but the KAR troops were holding firm. Immediately, Captain Martin despatched 30 Somali Riflemen under Colour Sergeant Mohamed Amiashi and a further 150 Marehan Levies to Hafalani, six hours march away. The inland column (Colour Sergeant Fareh Rageh) having driven off the tribesmen succeeded in reaching Hafalani the following morning. Shortly afterwards some 2000 camels were captured as they came to
water. Colour Sergeant Farah Rageh decided to drive them on to Serenli, but was waylaid by a strong force (estimated at several hundred) of Aulihan. A running fight lasting several hours ensued. Once again the Marehan Levies proved to be absolutely useless and bolted. Heavily outnumbered (Colour Sergeant Mohamed Ainashi’s force had not yet caught up), the small KAR force adopted the tactic of laying prone on the sand & volley firing as the tribesmen approached. Over fifty of the Aulihan were killed and many wounded. Again the levies did not perform at all well, and almost without exception ran away. They lost 17 killed and many wounded. In many cases they had been stabbed in the back as they fled. It was of course quite impossible to keep hold of 2000 camels in those circumstances and only 160 actually reached Serenli. No 1 column after handing over the camels re-joined No2 column at Malkaadi.



Let's talk about this history of your clan instead of pointing fingers at clans that ACTUALLY FOUGHT against the Colonizers.

Your Clan is a confederation and this is you are personally attacking Dawwa because he happens to have a different DNA then your clan claims. You want to preserve this myth that is why you have to gnagbang on him

Hawiye was the first Somali Group to be written in the history books. I know my abtiris and I would not post my abtiris on SNET. What kind of a suggestion this is

The first clear written reference to any Galla or Somali group is found in the writings of the thirteenth-century Arab geographer, Ibn Sa'id. Ibn Sa'id says that Merca, a town on the southern Somali coast near the Shebeli River, was the 'capital of the Hawiye country', which consisted of more than fifty villages (or districts or tribes).3 This area is today the home of the Hawiye Somali clan-family, so there is good reason to assume that the Merca region has been occupied continuously by the same Somali group for the past 700 years. In fact, we can probably extend this to 800 years, for the
geographer al-Idrisi remarks that Merca was the region of the 'Hadiye' in the twelfth century.

http://www.jstor.org.ezproxy.mnsu.edu/s ... 179457.pdf

Get back to your hunter-gatherer ways and quit talking about Hawiye. BOON

[garowegal]

"My clan is better than your clan"

"No, my clan is better than your clan. I even know all my grandfathers 34 generations back."


You both sound kinda immature.

Lol

[Addoow]

"My clan is better than your clan"

"No, my clan is better than your clan. I even know all my grandfathers 34 generations back."


You both sound kinda immature.

so true.

[sadeboi]

Again, all you have done is copy and paste nonsense, that has nothing do with our argument. As of yet, you have not proven anything I have said wrong about the Lafoole massacre. I made a point using a source you even credited.



Cassanelli, Lee V wrote this, IF I AM TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, TELL ME WHAT THE AUTHOR IS SAYING. What started the rebellion is the core of our discussion not what followed after the first battle.You have a habit of changing from one subject to another, answer my question. Is Lee Cassanelli not saying that the rebellion was spurred by two Arab men yes or no? After that is proven, I can discuss your weak attempts to make Marexaan seem like colonial accepters like your clan.




Twisted-Logic, you are proving to be more of a simpleton then I have previously thought, give some use to your slumdog education prove me otherwise. You claim to have been enrolled in a higher institute of education in America, yet you lack the basic concepts that are taught in a ENG 101 course. I have stated over and over again, the argument here revolves around two things; the cause of the war, and the allegation that Warsame or I "cannibalized" sources as stated on page 6 of this topic by you, Twisted Logic:

Quote:
And NO! You had nothing to bring to the discussion except some cannibalized documents first posted by Warsame and then absorbed by your clan members as the gospel truth.


I am not aware of what logic you are using, but as I have repeated numerous times, my argument is about the starting point of this war; the initial cause of it is the concern here, not what followed. To give you a bit of insight --so you can attain a better comprehension of the said discussion-- it is as if we were discussing the American Revolution against British colonialist, and I started a debate focusing on the cause of the war and presented the argument that the Boston Tea Party was the key event that sparked the revolution. And, you indulged in the events that occurred at the battle of Concord or Saratoga, and used it to explain how this war started. Are you following?

You have only one source, the book written by Robert Hess references back to Lee Cassenelli, your only legitimate source. Had you presented any other source that speak of the actual cause of the war, this debate would have ended pages ago lad-- but, as of yet, you have not. In that book, The Shaping of Somali Society, Lee Cassanelli explains that the Lafoole Massacre was spurred by two Arab men, who were bitter about losing their jobs. All this time, due to emotional ties to this, you have attacked me, when I only presented what was written as the cause of the war by the only legitimate source you have given. You have not presented any other source to counter that statement, instead you went on rampage implying I or some other individuals cannibalized that document. I will ask you again, and I do not want to read your opinion again, present another source that refutes what Lee Cassanelli clearly stated on page 65 of the book, The Shaping of Somali Society.

[Twisted_Logic]

LOl@ copying and pasting from claims that were defeated on that thread. Let the readers determine who is making hot air claims and who is stating the truth. All that was needed to say are here

viewtopic.php?f=250&t=229790&hilit=lafo ... e&start=90

You dont get to be the judge and the defendant

But You Have Failed to answer my points. You are being a coward again. What do you say about the history of your clan as levies and foot soldiers for the colonizers?

In the future, never comment about Hawiye when you are BOON. Let this be a lesson for you.

[dawwa9]

sadeboi,

We need the ISBN code of that book, a video of you holding the book with today's news paper or I don't trust your source.

[/end sarcasm]

[Twisted_Logic]

sadeboi,

We need the ISBN code of that book, a video of you holding the book with today's news paper or I don't trust your source.

[/end sarcasm]

[sadeboi]

dawwa..I copied exactly from that book, and shirib was there when I check it out, I will have the ISBN code, because unlike you I have nothing to hide, but he cannot disprove my point which is:



Twisted-logic has one source, just like I do, which is the book Lee Cassanelli so,

Cassanelli, Lee V wrote this, IF I AM TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, TELL ME WHAT THE AUTHOR IS SAYING? What started the rebellion is the core of our discussion not what followed after the first battle. Cassanelli CLEARLY stated the war was SPURRED by the firing of two Arabs translators INSTIGATED THE MASSACRE. No one is an idiot, and you have yet to answer it has been a YEAR now.

About Marexaan levies and all that:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=205905&p=2370189&h ... s#p2370189

[Twisted_Logic]

dawwa..I copied exactly from that book, and shirib was there when I check it out, I will have the ISBN code, because unlike you I have nothing to hide, but he cannot disprove my point which is:



Twisted-logic has one source, just like I do, which is the book Lee Cassanelli so,

Cassanelli, Lee V wrote this, IF I AM TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, TELL ME WHAT THE AUTHOR IS SAYING? What started the rebellion is the core of our discussion not what followed after the first battle. Cassanelli CLEARLY stated the war was SPURRED by the firing of two Arabs translators INSTIGATED THE MASSACRE. No one is an idiot, and you have yet to answer it has been a YEAR now.

About Marexaan levies and all that:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=205905&p=2370189&h ... s#p2370189

At this poor creature Sadeboi who thinks the facts will go away simply because he posts the same decimated myths over and over again. What a sad way to humiliate yourself.

I have already gone out of my way and into length debunking this myth of 2 Arab soldiers instigating the Lafoole Massacre. Your ignorance doesn’t change anything. I have detailed how this was not the case, stated how the resistance movement against Italian colonialism in Banadir/Shabelle continued decades after the Lafoole Massacre:

On April 20, almost 5 months after the Lafole attack, Sorrentino led his expedition inland and burned first Lafole and then several other villages associated with the Geledi and Murusade clan. The religious settlement of Nimow from where Sheekh Axmed Xaaji preached his religious message, was also bombarded by an Italian warship.

I detailed how decades after the Lafoole Massacre Wacdaan clansmen would still carry out hit and run attacks against Italian posts and caravans:

”Now the Wacdaan were beginning to blockade the caravan routes that ran through their territory to the coast” ( Lee V. Cassanelli).

I have detailed how following the Lafoole Massacre, the Italian colonizers were forced to stay in their garrisons and never venture out of their fortification:

”In the decade following the Lafoole incident, the Italians remained at the coast, their colonial policy marked by uncertainty and indecision. Their only major venture into the interior was the establishment of a garrison of Arab soldiers at Baardheere in 1902’’ ( Lee V. Cassanelli).

Then I went on to detail how the Lafoole incident wasn’t the struggle or movement against colonialism in Banadir/Shabelle. I posted and explained about the Barsane revolt where my clan continued its struggle against the Italians and posted poems written at the time against the Italians to show how well-entrenched resistance against colonialism was within my society.


If the 2 Arab soldiers were responsible for the entire incident, then shouldn’t it have been only an incident? Shouldn’t the resistance movement have died out after the conflict? Why did the resistance movement continue for decades BEFORE and decades AFTER the Lafoole Massacre? Why were the Italian Colonizers forced to stay within their fortification and not venture out for decades after the Lafoole Incident? Sadeboi will conveniently ignore this point and hilariously take one statement from the entire literature I have presented out of context and post it continuously simply because 1) he has no answer for the arguments that I have made and 2) he is generally dishonest.

About the role of your clan as levies. Well this is an established fact. The Ogaden were fighting against the British colonizers and your clan exploited the situation by enrolling as levies for the British colonizers to get back at the Ogaden. What is so glorious about this? This behavior fits a wider pattern- that of the political prostitution of your clan in order to exploit the colonization and use it as a way to get at fellow Somalis. This is a very shameful history and nor is it isolated. The same incident is repeated again.

[Twisted_Logic]

At the end of the day, this is what it all boils down to. Good luck defending it.

SOMALIS TO BE PUNISHED.

For the Murder of Italians at Magadoxo, Africa

Rome, Dec. 3.—In the chamber of Deputies today the Marquis Visconti Venosti, Minister of Foreign Affaires, confirmed the reports from Zanzibar of the murder of the Italian Consul, Signor Cecchi, the Captains, and a number of officers of the Italian warships Volturno and Staffeta, and the wounding of 100 or more other Italians by Somalis at Magadoxo. The men had fallen into an ambuscade and were attacked without warning.
The Government , the Minister said, would take energetic measures to punish the Somalis who were guilty of the outrage.
The Marquis said that the confirmatory reports showed that fourteen Italians had been killed, together with a number of the escorts of the Italians whose caravan was attacked during the night. Twenty-seven bodies were recovered by a rescue party when hurried to the scene from Magadoxo when the news of fighting reached there. The rescuers arrested a number of the Somalis who participated in the massacre and punished them appropriately. Many of the Somalis tribesmen were also killed by the Italians in the fight that followed the attack on the caravan.


The New York Times
Published: December 4, 1886

VS

SOMALI WANT TO FIGHT

The New York Times, pg. 8
Nov 22, 1914

Jubaland Chiefs Send Plea to England to Join the Army

London, Nov. 10 -the London Times has received from a correspondent a copy of a petition signed by the principal Somali chiefs in Jubaland, asking that they be allowed to fight for England. The document is as follows:

To His Highness the Governor,

Through the Hakim of Jubaland

Salaams, yea, many salaams, with God's mercy, blessing, and peace. After Salaams,


We, the Somali of Jubaland, both Herti and Ogaden, comprising all the tribes and including the Maghaubul, but not including the [Tolomooge] Ogaden, who live in Biskaya and Tanaland and the Merehan, desire humbly to address you.

In former days the Somali have fought against the Government. Even lately the Marehan have fought against the Government. Now we have heard that the German Government have declared war on the English government. Behold, our "fitna" against the English Government is finished. As the Monsoon wind drives the sand hills of our coast into new forms, so does this this news of German evil-doing drive our hearts and spears into the service of the English Government. The Jubaland Somali are with the English Government. Daily in our mosques we pray for the success of the English armies. Day is as night and night is as day with us until we hear that the English are victorious. God knows the right. He will help the right. We have heard that the Indian Askaris have been sent to fight for us in Europe. Humbly we ask why should not the Somali fight for England also. We beg the Government to allow our warriors to show their loyalty. In former days the Somali tribes made fitna against each other. Even now it is so: it is our custom; yet with the Government against the Germans we are as one, ourselves, our warriors, our women, and our children. By God it is so.

A few days ago many troops of the military left this country to eat up the Germans who have invaded our country in Africa. May God prosper them. Yet, Oh Hakim, with all humbleness we desire to beg of the Government to allow our sons and warriors to take part in this great war against the German evildoer. They are ready. They are eager. Grant them the boon. God and Mohammed is with us all.

If Government wish to take away all the troops and police from Jubaland, it is good. We pledge ourselves to act as true Government askaries until they return.

We humbly beg that this our letter may be placed at the feet of our King and Emperor, who lives in England, in token of our loyalty and our prayers.

My history is one of resistance against colonization yours is one of prostitution. You can't change the facts with repetition

As always, you right to be humiliated continues

[sadeboi]

If the 2 Arab soldiers were responsible for the entire incident, then shouldn’t it have been only an incident? Shouldn’t the resistance movement have died out after the conflict? Why did the resistance movement continue for decades BEFORE and decades AFTER the Lafoole Massacre? Why were the Italian Colonizers forced to stay within their fortification and not venture out for decades after the Lafoole Incident? Sadeboi will conveniently ignore this point and hilariously take one statement from the entire literature I have presented out of context and post it continuously simply because 1) he has no answer for the arguments that I have made and 2) he is generally dishonest.

SO, now you admit their responsibility for the incident, but not their full reponsibility classic. Did lee cassanelli write or did he not write that the massacre was spurred by two Arabs yes or no?

All your other nac-nac was defeated, this is why you are trying to get away from the topic. Answer the question, did Lee Cassanelli, the only source of both for the lafoole massacre not say:

Within ten days he had determined that Lafole was NEITHER THE PRECURSOR OF A GENERAL UPRISING AGAINST THE ITALIANS nor an Ethiopian ambush BUT AN ISOLATED CASE OF ACTION by Wadan tribesman and the tribes of Geledi, WHO HAD BEEN SPURRED TO ACT BY TWO ARABS FROM MOGADISHU?