How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

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gurey25
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How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by gurey25 »

It is obvious that Ethiopia is the main impedement to resolution of the Somalia problem.
Every major somali political grouping other than al-shabab are under its influence and are in reality ethiopian sattelites
just like the warsaw pact countries like poland, east germany were sattelites of the Soviet Union.

This goes for Somaliland, Puntland, ahlu al suna wa al jamaca and the TFG.

In Somalilands case, they have been patiently waiting for recognition since 91, and expected that this
will help it counter ethiopia and have a more equal relationship when its territroy is internationally protected like Djibouti,
while leaving the rest of somalia to thier own devices.

Puntland mission from inception has been to gaurentee the security and political power of the majerteen
since the carta government did not include them they were hostile to it.
When cabdullahi yusuf took over the last TFG,
he attempted to use puntland to gain power over the rest of somalia.
The problem was that he had the opposition of a real peoples movement the islamic courts that were forming,
and also the warlords that were reported to command some 60,000 mooryan.


The situation today is different,
most of the clans in south are exhausted by 19 years of war, and the only force interested in fighting today are alshabab and thier splinter groups.

Ahlu sunna wa jamaca are a defensive movement in response to the latter group...



The solution is deceptively simple.

Use Somaliland and to a lesser extent Puntland to help bring about a new and genuine TFG.
This should be formed on Somali land.
A TFG army should be trained and armed on Somali soil and this should then march south and secure the capital.


The al shabab and thier splinter groups have descredited themselves and do not have the support of the population,
they are holding hostage the people with less than 6,000 fighters amongs them.


What is needed is a source of funding and training from a reliable source.
The arabs should provide funding, and the Americans or EU maybe Egypt and Pakistan can be a source of officers for training.
The west has to be brought on board to prevent the Ethiopians from interfering.



from the political front, we need to avoid the failures of the previous TFG's.
There are 500 or more members of parlaiment that have no constituency, and are mostly washed up former warlords
and other useless sorts.

We need to invite clan elders and prominent men from all clans ,especially fromthe south.
This might mean that there could be nearly 1000 delegates from all clans meeting on somali soil,
Somaliland or Puntland.
They can elect a new TFG that will have the mandate to rule for 4 years till elections are held and constitution formulated.



Now what will prevent this TFG from having the same result as the previous 16 ot 17 attempts?
This new TFG needs to have a powerfull and commited millitary force behind it from the begining.


Somaliland and Puntland would be a good source.
In somalilands case there are 20,000 soliers on the books recieving a salary.
This is taking up more than half the budget of Somaliland and little is left over to maintain equipment of buy new ones,
there is little left over for training as well...


What will Somaliland get out of this deal?

for starters , recognition.

This is exactly how Eritrea got its independance recognized.
Eritrea and its allies defeated the dergue, then the EPLF helped the TPLF and EPRDF and OLF by marching into Addis Ababa with them and installing a new government.
This new government then recognized eritreas independance.

another products of this deal would be the retraining and requipment of our armed forces and saving million of dollars from the budget in the form of salaries, becuase the rest of the world will pick up the tab. :mrgreen:


what do you think....
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by *Nobleman* »

Very interesting and I agree with most of what you said. This is the obvious rational and logical approach to getting somalia back on its feet, but the problem is somalis dont often think logically.

Peace is all about limiting foreign influence in Somalia and especially influence from our longest standing enemy the Ethopians.

Somalia needs to take note from somaliland and some how bring all these clan elders under a tree to form the basis of a long standing agreement.

Your proposal is ideal, but after 20 years of anarchy is not realistic.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by Shirib »

Somaliland is not getting recognition, not today, not tomorrow, nor ever, so your solution ends there
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by qoraxeey »

ethiopia is nothing but a piece of shit :roll: :roll:

we used to own them from Mujahid Ahmed Gureys time to 1977-war

the only problem they get so much help from the outside kuffar world :x

also they can do us nothing , if somalis are united :|
Last edited by qoraxeey on Fri May 21, 2010 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by gurey25 »

*Nobleman* wrote:Very interesting and I agree with most of what you said. This is the obvious rational and logical approach to getting somalia back on its feet, but the problem is somalis dont often think logically.

Peace is all about limiting foreign influence in Somalia and especially influence from our longest standing enemy the Ethopians.

Somalia needs to take note from somaliland and some how bring all these clan elders under a tree to form the basis of a long standing agreement.

Your proposal is ideal, but after 20 years of anarchy is not realistic.

why is it not realistic?

As long you convince the Americans and the EU.
Ethiopia will behave.
you need to also declare that you respect the borders of Ethiopia.

as for opposition.. alshabab is a guerilla army without the support of the population
like Mao said the guerilla swims in the sea of the masses.
no support from the masses no guerilla...
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by gurey25 »

Shirib wrote:Somaliland is not getting recognition, not today, not tomorrow, nor ever, so your solution ends there
the Legal case of Somalilands independance is stronger than Eritreas.
several prominent anallyst from the west in the 1970 and 80's were convinced that it was impossible for eritrea to be independant.

what did they do?
To gain independance from ethiopia they actually took over ethiopia and installed a government of their own choosing
and made this government sign away recognition.
:mrgreen:
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by Air Canada »

Shirib wrote:Somaliland is not getting recognition, not today, not tomorrow, nor ever, so your solution ends there
:lol: :lol:

Shirka wuu xiran yahay.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by oldenglish »

Isaaq and Hawiyes are just fluff in the destiny of Somalia

You control shit but destroy what we've built.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by paidmonk »

Far fetched plan, unrealistic, Somalilanders would be committing suicide heading south, the two regions were never really cohesive, its best to just maintain the separate mentality. Hargeisa influence does not have clout in Xamar, that's the reason for secession correct. If Somalilanders could compete politically I don't doubt they would, but as a much lesser territory the region was never taken seriously by Somalis in the former Italian colony. Step 1 is impossible.

BUT, If somehow somalilanders got involved down south, it would not end. So don't make the mistake twice of joining Xamar, the two are as different as North/south korea and will never be equal in a union. Xamar is far too large a lake for reer Hargeisa to swim. Nothing will be different from the federal era.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by Air Canada »

Brother,

You seriously believe Somaliland & Punani toysoldiers can tame battle-hardened gangsters of the South?

Ciyaal waraf will defeat this supposedly powerful army from the North you speak of.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by IRONm@N »

Although its good idea, you getta understand that up northerners (Puntland and Somaliland) never think collective, they think local, they are fighting for their tribe interest. That is why they will never form a Somali government together.

Somali government has always been formed or sought in the South, even greater Somalia is always fought for in the South. Whether its Al-shabaab or TFG, the Southerners are more national and global, when they fight, they fight over building Somali government, or greater Somalia. When Somalia is invaded, its invaded in the South, such as Ethiopia, US, Kneya etc, and they defend against them. Although numorous tribes live in the South, they don't have their own clan Admin lands, such as Jubbaland, Banadirland, Shabelleland, Gedoland etc. Whereas the Northerners are fighting for the opposite end, tribally charged, and promoting their clan's secession from Somalia, instead of building Somali government, they want to build their own administration and just keep it to themselves.
You think if the South was peaceful, and the north was fighting, you think they will wait for the North to build a Somali government, they would build a Somali government and attacked the North and capture it.
Last edited by IRONm@N on Fri May 21, 2010 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by Air Canada »

IRONm@N wrote:Although its good idea, you getta understand that up northerners (Puntland and Somaliland) never think collective, they think local, they are fighting for their tribe interest. That is why they will never form a Somali government together.

Somali government has always been formed or sought in the South, even greater Somalia is always fought for in the South. Whether its Al-shabaab or TFG, the Southerners are less tribal and more national, when they fight, they fight over Somali government, or greater Somalia. Although numorous tribes live in the South, they never divided a long clan lines, and build admins for each clan, such as Jubbaland, Banadirland, Shabelleland, Gedoland etc. The Northerners are tribally charged, and they are individualists that are fighting their clan's secession from Somalia, instead of building Somali government, they want to build their own administration and just keep it to themselves.
You think if the South was peaceful, and the north was fighting, you think they will wait for the North to build a Somali government, they would build a Somali government and attacked the North and capture it.
Absolutely true.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by gurey25 »

paidmonk wrote:Far fetched plan, unrealistic, Somalilanders would be committing suicide heading south, the two regions were never really cohesive, its best to just maintain the separate mentality. Hargeisa influence does not have clout in Xamar, that's the reason for secession correct. If Somalilanders could compete politically I don't doubt they would, but as a much lesser territory the region was never taken seriously by Somalis in the former Italian colony. Step 1 is impossible.

BUT, If somehow somalilanders got involved down south, it would not end. So don't make the mistake twice of joining Xamar, the two are as different as North/south korea and will never be equal in a union. Xamar is far too large a lake for reer Hargeisa to swim. Nothing will be different from the federal era.

You didnt bother to read my post at all did you?

This is a chance for Somaliland to reduce its millitary spending while at the same time, getting the rest of the world to pay for
the re training and re-equipment of its millitary for free..

What does Somalia get out of this?
A better functioning TFG created on Somali soil.
Ethiopian influence reduced .

thousands of somaliland troops for use in the south, along side puntland troops and other Africans peacekeepers.

and an al shabaab reduced to a small irritating group of terrorists hiding in the bushes and away from all major towns..

We get the new TFG to sign away recognition for somaliland as part of the deal..


what you do with this chance after we leave is none of our business.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by oldenglish »

gurey25 wrote:
paidmonk wrote:Far fetched plan, unrealistic, Somalilanders would be committing suicide heading south, the two regions were never really cohesive, its best to just maintain the separate mentality. Hargeisa influence does not have clout in Xamar, that's the reason for secession correct. If Somalilanders could compete politically I don't doubt they would, but as a much lesser territory the region was never taken seriously by Somalis in the former Italian colony. Step 1 is impossible.

BUT, If somehow somalilanders got involved down south, it would not end. So don't make the mistake twice of joining Xamar, the two are as different as North/south korea and will never be equal in a union. Xamar is far too large a lake for reer Hargeisa to swim. Nothing will be different from the federal era.

You didnt bother to read my post at all did you?

This is a chance for Somaliland to reduce its millitary spending while at the same time, getting the rest of the world to pay for
the re training and re-equipment of its millitary for free..

What does Somalia get out of this?
A better functioning TFG created on Somali soil.
Ethiopian influence reduced .

thousands of somaliland troops for use in the south, along side puntland troops and other Africans peacekeepers.

and an al shabaab reduced to a small irritating group of terrorists hiding in the bushes and away from all major towns..

We get the new TFG to sign away recognition for somaliland as part of the deal..


what you do with this chance after we leave is none of our business.

Not possible, paid pretty much summed it up.
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Re: How to checkmate Ethiopian Influence and Recreate Somalia

Post by gurey25 »

Air Canada wrote:Brother,

You seriously believe Somaliland & Punani toysoldiers can tame battle-hardened gangsters of the South?

Ciyaal waraf will defeat this supposedly powerful army from the North you speak of.

alshabab are not invinsible, they are poorly trained and poorly equiped and are not disciplined.

The reason they are winning is becuase every other somali group they faced does not have the will to fight and is even more undisciplined and badly trained then them..

You dont need bravery to win wars, you need training and discipline....

why do you think the alshabab are not able to handle the ugandans.

the ugandans do not have any power tanks and armoured vehicles that the alshabab cannot hit.

Last time i checked the ugandans only have some IFV's like BMP-3's and APC's like the south african caspir..
bot of these are easily destroyed by an rpg-7 that the alshabab have.

and also by the anti-aircraft guns that somali millitias like to place on thier trucks like the Zugs and ZSu-22's
a zsu-22 can hit a Caspir from 2 kms and turn all 11 men inside and the 2 drivers into mince meat within minutes.
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