being modern = being western....really??

[zulaika]

with so many "traditions" still alive and well in modern times, does being modern necessarily mean being western?

the other day i was chatting with a group of females at a community function and one of them was a girl from Afghanistan, i thought she was Italian until she told me who she was... after talking much about nothing she told me how surprised she is that so many Somali girls are going to school and pursuing higher education but from the looks of it, they don't look the part...a la modern and western. so i asked, what do you mean, she said, well to be educated is to be modern...and modern means "current" so old world customs ie traditions will only hinder progress in that regard...therefore ditch tradition, like she did so then i note back to her remark about "looking the part" and said, "aren't you judging a book by its cover"....to which she replied, "to dress like you do(meaning hablaha who dress in their traditional attire) people will judge that book by its covers...and its one with empty pages"...... at that point i didn't see it worth my while to further the discussion, i laughed it off and let her be with her views.

sadly she is not alone in that state of mind. i noticed even among us there are those that believe modernizing means to westernize.

Happy Friday everyone!!

[Paddington Bear]

If it's the way of dressing then I am yet to see a Somali woman in the West going to work whilst wearing a dirac.
Nothing wrong with adapting positive western ways.

[bareento]

Everything Modern being invented by the westerners, there is for sure some positive correlations between the west and modernity.
But I am not sure whether its necessary to be westernized to be modern.

B.

[ToughGong]

^

[ParadigmShift]

with so many "traditions" still alive and well in modern times, does being modern necessarily mean being western?

Western being equated with modernity is one of the facades of our current times. Modernity is no more. We now live in a post modern world. Hence, there are redrawing of boundaries of what constitutes as knowledge. Western monopoly of most things are being challenged. Ironically, it is quite trendy for westerner to flirt with other 'traditional' cultures. why do you think, they are intent on going to Tibet and trekking in south east Asia. The elite of the western nations are very aware of the cultures of ''others''. Those who have an ingrained sense of inferiority, usually non-white and non-western, look up to the west as though its the only yard stick of measuring what is considered advance and modern.

[snoop12]

i didnt read you post but your question is interesting. to answer it in short NO NO NO. infact western tradition sometimes collides with modernity just like other traditions do. in Western civilization Drinking is a centuries old culture whose practices is still widespread today, does drinking alcohol substances collide with modernity ? ofcourse, medical research shows drinking is extremely bad to multiple organs in your body, not to mention the broad number of social problem that can arise from drinking. Drinking actually physically collides with modernity in the form of car accidents, the number one killer.

Modernity was not derived from Western culture, it came from science and investigation. if anything Modernity was directly derived from the Islamic Books, primarily the Quraan.

[ParadigmShift]

if anything Modernity was directly derived from the Islamic Books, primarily the Quraan.

Modernity is a time in history and has nothing to do with Islam. Essentially, its represented by a post traditional society -in effect, the move from subsistence living towards industrialisation and indeed towards the separation between established religious orders and the state (secularism).

[ToughGong]

^
In fact the whole of the "Euopean renesaince" wouldn't be possible without the aid of Muslim scholars such as Ibn Rushad (Averoes) Ibn Sina (Avicenna,)etc etc

[ParadigmShift]

^
In fact the whole of the "Euopean renesaince" wouldn't be possible without the aid of Muslim scholars such as Ibn Rushad (Averoes) Ibn Sina (Avicenna,)etc etc

I am quite Islam had its own modernity. But modernity in a western context has an entirely different meaning to that of Islam. These words cannot be used interchangeably because they different meanings.

[bareento]

There is much hype about islamic scholars of the past,
but when u look closely to their works its just a translation of greek works.

One should not take as truth wat condescending leftist in the west told muslim
immigrants in order to boost their moral and integrate them!

In my opinion muslim culture/society is anti-modernist, as it states everything is known and written in Koran.
its static society.

B.

[ParadigmShift]

In my opinion muslim culture/society is anti-modernist, as it states everything is known and written in Koran.
its static society.

B.

Using western tabloid buzz words only makes you sound dumber than you already are. Islam is not as rigid as you would like to be. Islam is not set in stone, which means that apart from the divine sources like the Quran and the hadith, everything else is up for interpretation. Islamic law is a man made law, which means that it was arrived at from ijma of the scholars. There is no literal interpretation of Islamic law, hence why we have different school of thought. Also, we need to bear in mind that Islam has allowed flexibility in interpretation so that Islam remains a religion that adopts to its environment. Although many people have suggested that we should open the gates of ijtihad, I am not sure if this will improve the conditions of Muslims the world over. The very nature of Islamic law is flexible.

[snoop12]

ParadigmShift...

did you read the "if anything", i was not defining the term but simply explaining Modernity does not equal Culture in this case western culture, and "if anything" it had more relation to the Islamic Books(mainly Quraan) which established scientific and social breaksthroughs no culture or tradtion/religion can compete with. Islam took the biggest bite at modernity and is still contributing by encouraging its followers to be the best of their fields, be up-to-date ect.

whether the Muslim world practice this modernity or not, it clearly shows in the books and have been there fore centuries. it just so happens those who picked up the books and derived many things deemed Modern, were and still are Western people.

[zulaika]

If it's the way of dressing then I am yet to see a Somali woman in the West going to work whilst wearing a dirac.
Nothing wrong with adapting positive western ways.

no i'm not talking about going work in dirac, rather looking the part as in plane jane with her jeans and t shirt. anything outside of this would be deemed "traditional" in the western sense

[bareento]

In my opinion muslim culture/society is anti-modernist, as it states everything is known and written in Koran.
its static society.

B.

Using western tabloid buzz words only makes you sound dumber than you already are. Islam is not as rigid as you would like to be. Islam is not set in stone, which means that apart from the divine sources like the Quran and the hadith, everything else is up for interpretation. Islamic law is a man made law, which means that it was arrived at from ijma of the scholars. There is no literal interpretation of Islamic law, hence why we have different school of thought. Also, we need to bear in mind that Islam has allowed flexibility in interpretation so that Islam remains a religion that adopts to its environment. Although many people have suggested that we should open the gates of ijtihad, I am not sure if this will improve the conditions of Muslims the world over. The very nature of Islamic law is flexible.

Speaking of dumbness...

[DisplacedDiraac]

Not really.
You can always modernise your traditional/cultural clothing!!