Adultery!!!!!

[The Law26]

What is the punishment for adultery in Islam? If I'm not mistaken, the Quraan says to flog them, I would say that flogging is the valid punishment. But let me remind you that there is a haddith that says to stone them to death. Why? I will explain briefly later, but first, let me quote for you the ayats that states flogging in the Quraan;

Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden. [24:3]

Coupled with ayat 24:02: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

From the above ayats, it is clear that the punishment for 'zina', whether adultery or fornication, is flogging, not stoning. Stoning was done before the relevant verses of the Quraan on flogging were revealed, and applied to the Jews with whom there was an agreement to apply to them their law of the Torah.

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

Did you read this right??? The Jew...

Jewish people usually asked the Prophet pbuh to judge between them, under their law. The Prophet pbuh was so well regarded in Medina that Jews would come to him to act as judge using their law. After the verse was revealed, no Muslims (to my knowledge) where stoned to death by the Prophet pbuh. Basically, one version of the story says that when confronted with a need to know how to proceed, the Prophet pbuh consulted "the learned ones to whom the Book was revealed before", the Jews. The Talmud prescribes stoning for adultery, so that was what was adopted. Some scholars believe that stoning is the punishment for married adulterers and flogging is reserved for unmarried adulterers. Yet, the Quran seems to indicate that adulterers get to live:

If some Muslims today wish to follow the ways of the Jews, then such Muslims may continue to apply stoning to death for adultery, then they may disregard the command of Allah SWT on adultery, as explicitly stated in the Quraan. I have stated this specific punishment in the Quran about adultery. How can a Hadith specific to a given time abrogate the Quraan? To elevate ahadith above the Holy Quraan, is a form of manifest misguidance.

Yes, the Holy Prophet Mohamed pbuh issued commands on the basis of received revelation from Allah SWT. But no such revelation that we are to follow, can possibly contradict the preserved Word of Allah SWT. If it appears to be, then we have to lay aside such reports as questionable. In the meantime, we obey Allah SWT and follow His Word, and not follow the Jews in their laws. Thereby, we will be avoiding a clear and manifest form of shirk by equating, or elevating the words of humans over that of Allah SWT.

The Quraan is the preserved literal word of Allah [15:10]. We are bidden to love and follow the Holy Prophet pbuh.

[SoMaLiSiZz]

La xawala wala qowata ila billah


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so what is this hadeeth ::


Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6.79, Narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar

The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them." He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?" They replied, "We do not find anything in it." 'Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them, "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. 'Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?" So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm." So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.

[The Law26]

[quote="SoMaLiSiZz"]La xawala wala qowata ila billah


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so what is this hadeeth ::


Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6.79, Narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar

The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them." He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?" They replied, "We do not find anything in it." 'Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them, "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. 'Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?" So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm." So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.[/quote]

Somalisiz

I heard that hadith too, not the wording but the bottom line is that you agree with me the hadith was about Jews who committed adultery and punished on their own laws. My question that I raised above is, given that since that hadith, there wass a clear ayat concerning adultery revealed, is it relevant to us? Or, we follow the Torah?

[SoMaLiSiZz]

how about this one ..


The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) further said: “[Under Islamic laws in an Islamic state] It is not lawful to shed the blood of a Muslim except for one of three sins: a married person committing fornication, and in just retribution for premeditated murder, and [for sin of treason involving] a person renouncing Islam, and thus leaving the community [to join the enemy camp in order to wage war against the faithful].” (Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, and An-Nasa’i)

[The Law26]

[quote="SoMaLiSiZz"]how about this one ..


The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) further said: “[Under Islamic laws in an Islamic state] It is not lawful to shed the blood of a Muslim except for one of three sins: a married person committing fornication, and in just retribution for premeditated murder, and [for sin of treason involving] a person renouncing Islam, and thus leaving the community [to join the enemy camp in order to wage war against the faithful].” (Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, and An-Nasa’i)[/quote]

Somalisiz

Ignore that recently retired alcoholic soldier above. Let us show him the way.

This is a correct hadith, and since our prophet pbuh never judged other than those two Jews under their laws to death for adultery, it is quiet evident that the prophet pbuh adhered to Allah SWT and stoned them. This hadith was revealed before the ayats, and similarly there are revealed ayats and ahadiths that deal with the punishment of apostacy since that hadith you qouted.

[Cawar]

So let me get this right... Somalisiz, for i am curious

You are allowed to kill under an Islamic authority only in these specific cases??? right?

Does this mean a Murtad(Atheist) is not to be killed unless he is planning to join the enemy and wage war agaianst muslims? to me this could be used as a good excuse for many muslim leaders to kill other muslims as well, claiming that they were such and such enemies of Islam and the state(this happens all the time as you know)..right?


How about killing the gays, or throw them from some place, hill etc? no case here?...i been hearing this from the sheikhs, maybe they were pseudo-sheiks!

Law,

One more thing: are you saying this hadeth came before the Ayah, so the hadith no longer is applicable? and that the nabi has never ordered a muslim woman to stoned to death?

[Gamadid.]

CAWAR, Salam bro, Haven't got a chance to say to you welcome back.

[SoMaLiSiZz]

The law26 how do u know this hadeeth was before the verse of quran ?

[The Law26]

Cawar

Welcome on board, some nice questions you raised.

As we can clearly see what the ayats say about adultery, yes these hadiths perceded the ayats, and were in a specific time of the revelation of the Quraan, and our Prophet pbuh administered stoning punishment to adultery only once, and were to a Jew couple according to the Torah.

[SoMaLiSiZz]

the punishment specified for the person who commits adultery is 80 lashes”. It’s to be noted that as regard flogging - as a punishment specified for an unmarried person guilty of fornication – it’s 100 and not 80 lashes. In the very beginning of Surat An-Nur, it is stated that 100 lashes is the punishment specified for unmarried adulterer and adulteress, Allah says: (The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.) (An-Nur 24: 2).

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Coming to the issue of stoning to death as a punishment for married adulterer and adulteress, the statement that there is no verse stipulating that punishment is not correct. It is to be made crystal clear that the punishment is explicitly sanctioned by both the Qur’an and the Prophetic Tradition. Before explaining this further, it’s to be stressed that such punishment should not be a cause of wonder, especially when we know that it had been there in the Divine Scriptures revealed before the Glorious Qur’an. There is a reference to this punishment in the Bible, for instance. It reads: "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22: 22) and also in Leviticus, we find the following verse:"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Leviticus 20: 10).

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Coming to the issue of stoning to death as a punishment for married adulterer and adulteress, the statement that there is no verse stipulating that punishment is not correct. It is to be made crystal clear that the punishment is explicitly sanctioned by both the Qur’an and the Prophetic Tradition. Before explaining this further, it’s to be stressed that such punishment should not be a cause of wonder, especially when we know that it had been there in the Divine Scriptures revealed before the Glorious Qur’an. There is a reference to this punishment in the Bible, for instance. It reads: "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22: 22) and also in Leviticus, we find the following verse:"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Leviticus 20: 10).

All this makes it clear that it was neither Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) nor the glorious Qur’an, revealed to him, brought the capital punishment (as a punishment for adultery) out of the blue. Being the Seal Prophet, it was his mission to perfect the Divine Message of the Supreme Creator!

The second point that should be borne in mind on this issue is that, as previously refuted, the statement that the Qur’an is silent on this punishment is not genuine. Actually, according to renowned Muslim jurists, there was a verse (Ayah) in the Qur’an that talked about this matter. Though the verse was abrogated, but the abrogation here is in wording; the ruling is still kept in force.

One may ask “What is abrogation?” Abrogation means removal. It may involve the text or the ruling or both. There is a great Divine wisdom behind every incident of abrogation, part of which is to assert that the Islamic legislation, unlike man-made ones, was not established at once; rather, all its teachings and rulings were set gradually. In addition, when abrogating the words of a verse but not its ruling, this serves as a reminder that not all the Divine messages are to be through one channel, i.e. a direct revelation. Rather, part of these messages is to be clarified through the practice and tradition of the Prophet sent to deliver the message.

So the point here is: the practice of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is itself a part of revelation. Almighty Allah explains this saying: (And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal.) (Al-Hashr 59: 7) Also Allah says: (…then let those beware who withstand the Messenger's order, lest some trial befall them, or a grievous penalty be inflicted on them) (An-Nur 24: 63).

[SoMaLiSiZz]

According to eminent Qur’an exegetes, this verse serves as a strong warning against deviating from the Tradition of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Imam Ibn Kathir says: “The words ‘the messenger’s order’ refer to his Path, teachings, laws and tradition. Thus, all words and deeds should be weighed according to the words and deeds of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in the sense that whatever correspond with his words and deeds are accepted and whatever contradicts that should be rejected.”

The abrogated verse stated that “A married man and woman, if they commit adultery, stone them to death.”

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Allah tells us in the Qur'an that the Prophet (does not speak out of his own fancy. It is all an inspiration sent down to him.) (An-Najm 53: 3-4) Therefore, what the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, teaches us is part of our religion. It is not something that he has determined by himself. It is certainly revealed to him.

[Cawar]

Gamadid

Thkz sxb. But I am a part timer now a days, as you can see the place is not constructive as it used to be.

Law

THkx for the clarification, but would the Ayah teke over the earlier hadith of the stoning, provided that the Nabi CSW abviously didnt know what to do and hence asked the Jews what their law was??

S/siz




WHat is this now? I mean i could accept if some one said, the stoning to death is not mentioned in the Quran, but the prophet said so or ordered so, but you went all the way to quote the Old Testament and the New, jst to proof your point????? Did the Rasull do tha same? and if not would that be considered not only a bid'a but more of a sin? i remember you saying Sadaqa Laahul cadiim is bid'a, and all of a sudden you come up with the bible as a support.

So the Jews were oredered to pray say 100 times, and the cristians to pray in a certain way, are we to follow them too?? not to mention that as stated in the quran, their books have been subjected to many ommisions and changes.

And now are we to be believe that some verses have been removed from the Quran? first of all why and who had/has the authority to do so? even the prophet CSW was not provided with that authority(as you mentioned it in the verse above) let alone others, secondly why keep the law if the verse was abrogated? it doesnt make sense to me at all.

I dont wanna sound offenssive, but try to check your sources beyond the ineternet, will you sister...before you try to sell it.