The true Black Hawk Down: To MAD MAC

[Kamal35]

Hi, Mad. Yesterday night, back in the hotel, I put on one of these satelite channel and there was a documentary in History Channel called "Cercado em Mogasixu" (in Portuguese) with he English subtitle "The true Black Hawk Down". This HistoryChannel repeat the documentaries, so I could see it yesterday, this morning and it will be repeated again tonight.

Fantanstic documentary about what happened in the Malinti Rangers or Battle of Mog, 3-4 october, 1993. As a journalist, while yesterday night I was just watching it in this satellite channel, this morning I was taking notes, names, references, possible future sources, names to be searches. There was Lee van Arsdale ( a Delta Force), Rangers as Mike Goodale, John Belman, Jeff Strueker, Aaron Williamson, Aaron Weaver, Collet, the journalist Mark Bowden, who wrote BlackHawk Down.

The documentary was really well balanced because, at the same time it was giving the opinions and operations of the American Army in Somalia, it was also listening, through real interviews, with the people of the Somali militia and their reasons to fight the Americans. So you could also listen to Firimbi, some guys of the Somali militia, one of those Aideed ministers who were detained in the operations, one Somali agent working for the USA intelligence, a Somali woman who lost her brother in the battle of Mogadishu...

The documentary, two hours long, describes, almost minute by minute, all what happened, the background, the reasons why Somalis, who firstly welcomed the UNO and the USA marines with their arms open, little by little started to feel angry against UNO and USA because, once Restore Hope Operation was finished, both UNO and USA wanted a political intervention in Somalia.

It describes the feelings, the difference of cultures, the proud of the Somali people. But it also describes the "Moryaans", a word which Basra used a lot of times and I tried to understand. Finally, some Somalineters described it to me as "barbarians". But it wasn't the real meaning: "Moryaans" were, are, those militia soldiers really high on qat killing at everyone. Most of them 12 years old children kidnapped or recluted to fight in a militia. The kind of a boy you described in another post: "A smiling teenager with his Ak-47, smiling at the window of your car and saying: 'I will kill you".

It's hard to believe for a Western mentality. But hey: Videos don't lie. You can see the state of anarchy and confussion and chaos Somalia was involved in 1993. It was a Comanche Territory.

The documentary describes also how the reaction of American troops, mainly Rangers, who weren't used to battlefield, but just training in Port Bragg or something, overreacted, shooting at everything that moved, killing hundreds of civilians. They had in mind that all militia soldiers sent their families to fight against Americans, which is not completly true by the testimony of my Somali friend (finally, I e-mailed to her and she told me that she's not Habar Gadir, but Hawiye visiting her related in Mog when the whole battle happened). The battle was so noisy that everyone, as she told me, wanted to know what was happening, so a lot of curious people (Somalis are really very curious people when there's a big noise) got near the place, and they got involved in the battle, being killed by some bunch of Americans really nervous and scared about if the mob was a militia Army or just curious. They saw Ak-47's among the crowd and they shot against the crowds. Hundreds of Somalis were killed.

With the militias of Aideed in one side, with the anger of the average Somalis living in the Bakara Market district, who were hitted day in day out for the past few months, with the propaganda of Aideed saying that USA troops wanted to convert muslims into christians, and with the operation of the Somali Radio Station, and mainly, with the slaughter of the leaders of the clans who were in a meeting trying to restore peace in Somalia, the 3-October operation was a real bad move.

Somalis in Mog understood this new operation as an invassion. That Americans wanted to kill all Somalis. I remember my Somali friend (she was 19 years old then) describing the column of humvees as "Star Wars Fighters". Soldiers all covered from head to toe, covering their faces and mouths. I think we talked about it befored. But I had this vivid impression from her. Then, some years later, I saw the pics of soldiers in the humvees, leading the 50mm, with their faces all covered. Someone in BHD93 explained to me, as a soldier carrying a 50mm, that they covered their faces because of the dust and not other reason. But a battle have hundreds of points of view. American soldiers couldn't explain to Somali civilians: "We are not Star Wars Soldiers, we're just covering our mouths because of the dust", in the same way Somalis couldn't say to Americans: You're scaring us, you want to kill us, we have to deffend ourselves from you". ETC.

At least, this documentary speak for itself. It's not like "Black Hawk Down", a movie which I think is a fascist movie, because, althought it's completly accurate on what happened to American soldiers minute by minute, doesn't give a break to Somalis. Doesn't allow Somalis to express their reasons, their reactions, their "because". Somalis are a bunch of black monkeys who want to kill everyone.

My personal impression is that it was not true. Somalis felt insulted by the international community and felt angry. Farah Aideed used that in order to gain personal power. The culture of clans, and civil war, and warriors, war so spreaded that even children were carrying AK-47. Like in Yemen, a country in which, if you're 12 years old, the best present for you is to carry a knife with the best blade. The culture of gun in Somalia is like the culture of gun in USA. If you don't carry a gun, you're not a man.

Finally, things were out of hand in Somalia. As Mark Bowden says in the documentary: "War is so horrible thing to start it in a such a fool way" (or something: I had to listen in Portuguese) or "Somalia won that battle, but it lose the war".

I'd love to hear your impressions of that day, what do you remember, what happened in your mind... I don't know, but, at the end of the documentary, there's a lot of picture, and you seem to be there in one of them. I thought I could reconogzise you: A bunch of guys are in front of a Black Hawk, all them smiling. Someone, in the centre of the image, his knees on ground, carrying a metal gun: I saw it and I thought: "It's Mad Mac himself!".

Please, share you're impressions here. If you don't want in public, just email me.

Great documentary. At least, we can listen both sides. Even the Somali journalist, Issa Mohamed, who shoot the dragging of the corpses. By the way: who were them? Ray? Shoughart? Gordon?

[michael_ital]

That sounds good, Bro. I just did a quick chek on the History Channel website and found it, so I ordered it. Thanks for the info. Good post.

[Ina Baxar]

Was Mad mac part of task force ranger in mogadiscio?

[Kamal35]

Ina: yeah, he was there. That's the reason he's still here. Somalia.

[Ina Baxar]

Okay kamal , I don't know if you know , but being in Somalia in 93 doesn't automatically make you part of task force ranger
One would have to be at least a ranger or any other special operation soldier to be part of that. That's why I am asking , is mad mac a ranger?

[michael_ital]

I DON'T think he's a Ranger or Special Ops. In fact, i'm certain he isn't. I think he's part of the Engineering Corp, but I could be wrong.

[Kamal35]

I'm not someone to reply by other, in this case, Mad mac. I just can say, in my own words, that Mad Mac was there as an intelligence officer, which is really well known here. He was for a long time in Somalia and that's the reason he, and me, fell in love with Somalia, both of us with completlely, even opposite reasons. He's an American soldier, I'm a left wing journalist, but, after all the discussions we had, we became friends. I respect him so much because he's strong, straight. He also respects my left wing European position. We respect each other in our kind: he never addressed to me like "You bastard" or "kaffir shit". Same kind here.

That makes the difference. If you have some people like Somaliziz, that makes the difference of being a nazi hitlerian fanatic or common people.

I can talk to Mad Mac from a point of a great disagreemeent and we will respect me. Same in the opposite: he can bring here a great disagreament with me, and finally, I'll will show my respect to him.

It happened in the past, it usually happens. When Mad Mac sends me pictures of what he's doing, working so hard in Djibouti or Somalia, hey, he's doing his job in Somalia. He's so proud to help Somali peolple!. In the meanwhile,here there are the muslim fanatics living in London, or New York, cheering at the terrorist attacks and all that shit.

Good: Old Mad Mac is in Djibouti, under 50 grades under the sun, and Somalisiz is here, spreading hate against kuffirs. What the feeling Mad Mac and me feel?

"Fuck this bicht".

There's no other feeling against this. Just "Shut this bitch off".

I was never so agree with Mad Mac about this bicht!. Shut the girl off!!

Here I am working with Iraki children, trying to bring a little peace to them, and this bitch goes with "You have to hate all non muslims". Here I'm to bring some peace to orphans and there' she goes saying that "Killing non muslims is OK".

I'm completly agree with Mac Mac: She's a bitch! She's a prostitute of Islam. She's perverting islam. Look at her avatar: a covered woman with a gun.

I can't stand lugoyo.
I can stand Hannah.
I can stand all the fanatics.

But I can't stand
Somalizis.

One thing is to be angry.

Another thing is to call for terrorism.

This girls is just a fanatic terrorists.

You muslims,
stop her.

[AbdiWahab252]

Actually there were 2 cassettes shot by the Somali National Alliance Media.

Graphic stuff that showed the Rangers fleeing and taking kids hostage.

[michael_ital]

Abdi, Is that one available ?? I'll search for it. But this is the one I ordered, and the one that I believe kamal was referring to.

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=70668

[michael_ital]

12/06/93 The Pentagon quits Somalia.

SPINNING DUNKIRK
The New Republic

By Michael Maren


Mogadishu

Last Sunday, Col. Steven Rausch concluded his daily 5:00 p.m. briefing to the Mogadishu press corps with the following announcement: "We have two media opportunities for you tomorrow. At 3:00 p.m., rescue training at Victory Base and at 4:00 p.m. tank gunnery at range six. If anyone is interested in attending see Maj. Pullen after the briefing." The reporters in the room smirked at each other. This was starting to sound like day camp.

Though media opportunities were always a part of covering the war in Somalia, they've become daily fare since Rausch and his team arrived in Mogadishu on October 17. Rausch, middle-aged, soft-spoken and business-like, leads the thirty-six-member Pentagon Joint Information Bureau, or jib. Until the bureau's arrival, when the United States was still pretending its soldiers were just one part of the United Nations force, the military's p.r. was handled solo by Maj. David Stockwell, his American uniform disguised with a blue u.n. patch. In press briefings these days the jiblets, as they are known, outnumber reporters by as many as three to one. They tempt journalists with offers of helicopter rides over Mogadishu and trips to aircraft carriers, complete with air shows, baseball caps and shopping at the ship's p.x. This week reporters got to see soldiers practice rescue operations in abandoned buildings.

When some 400 vehicles, including Bradley assault vehicles and Abrams m1-a1 tanks, arrived at the port of Mogadishu in early November, it became another media opportunity. This one came with a Hollywood title--Task Force 164: Convoy to Victory Base. To cover the event, the jib offered two accommodation plans. Option 1: Ride with the convoy to Victory Base, your choice of Humvee, armed personnel carrier (apc) or truck. (Sorry, no tank rides.) Option 2: Catch the convoy en route past the airport and then board a helicopter, watch the spectacle from the sky and then be there to welcome the convoy to Victory Base. Every reporter was assigned a personal jiblet. I chose Option 1, and squeezed into an apc with my jiblet, a young woman sergeant who made me uncomfortable by insisting on calling me "sir."

Before we pulled out of the port I had the chance to talk to the soldiers, recently arrived from Fort Stewart, Georgia. When asked if they knew why they were in Somalia, each of them recited verbatim, from President Clinton's October 7 speech, the three goals of the mission. We're here to protect our troops and bases, keep roads and lines of communication open so relief food can flow and keep the pressure on the bad guys. All of the soldiers, it turned out, had received extensive instruction in dealing with the press. (The October issue of the Army's Soldiers magazine describes "media on the battlefield training": instructors, portraying journalists armed with notebooks and cameras, descend on the troops and start asking questions.) The way things have been planned in Somalia, the press will likely be the only resistance they have to face.

The convoy rolled down a just-completed road that took it to the airport, along the beach, around Mogadishu and out of town. The American firepower was kept as far away as possible from any confrontation with Somalis. From my apc in the middle of a huge convoy, it was apparent that the U.S. operation in Somalia no longer has anything at all to do with Somalia. It is now a show to prove that America did not back down after eighteen of its soldiers were killed on October 3. It is meant to demonstrate that when we leave in March, we will have, in President Clinton's words, done the job right. The jib's mission is to make sure the world gets the message--no matter what actually happens.

From the ground here in Mogadishu, Clinton's three goals make hardly any sense. First, there is little need to protect our troops. Since the administration called off the hunt for Mohamed Farah Aideed, American soldiers have rarely left the barracks, and Aideed isn't about to go in and get them. The Americans are, after all, leaving in four months. Second, the "lines of communication" and humanitarian relief routes are already open. To say they aren't is a transparent effort to re-spin the mission in the humanitarian terms so popular last year. The relief agencies I visited were getting their supplies; in four weeks of driving around Mogadishu I have yet to encounter a roadblock on a major route. Finally, the United States has deliberately taken the pressure off Aideed. A month ago, every ambush and shooting in Mogadishu was blamed on the warlord or his militia. Today, press officers take pains to describe the daily dose of mayhem as the doings of bandits. When a 22-year-old American u.n. worker was killed last week, and his vehicle stolen by known members of Aideed's militia, the u.n. announced that the gunmen were "freelancing." When I questioned an American officer about the absurdity of the three goals, he just grinned and said, "Exactly. The mission can't fail. We need to be able to claim one success before we leave on March 31."

Only the p.r. war is being fought with any enthusiasm. Against the growing impression that thousands of American soldiers were sent to Somalia on a face-saving mission, it was announced that the Americans would establish a "presence" on the streets. Exactly what that "presence" will consist of or when it will begin has never been made clear. At press briefings, when Rausch is asked about the presence, he says "soon" or "not yet." When Ambassador Robert Oakley was in Somalia in early November, he met with representatives of Aideed's Somali National Alliance and informed them that the U.S. troops wanted to venture outside their barracks. Later he reported that an agreement had been reached: American soldiers would be able to patrol the streets; Aideed's militia wouldn't shoot them.

In Mogadishu and around Somalia, people expect the civil war to start again when the Americans--along with the French, Belgians and Germans--head home. The remaining force, made up largely of Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Malaysians, will be vulnerable--if they choose to stay. No one expects them to get involved if clan warfare starts up again. Even the u.n.'s own intelligence indicates that the March 31 withdrawal, actually scheduled to begin in mid-December, will be the beginning of a new disaster. A high-ranking U.S. military official, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity, summed it up: "Aideed will take it all."

As the u.n. watches and the United States poses, Somalia's warlords are preparing for round two. Warlord Mohammed Hersi Morgan, who made good use of the fixation with Aideed to rest and rearm his militia, is already reoccupying Kismayo, anticipating the December withdrawal of Belgian troops. The Belgians, who just want to go home, have decided not to resist. Last month, very quietly, Aideed's forces captured the town of Brava, an important port south of Mogadishu.

Meanwhile, the u.n. is running around setting up district and regional councils to participate in the transitional government that, under the u.n. plan, will take over when the foreigners leave. All over Somalia, however, people are complaining that the councils have been hurriedly assembled, serving only to meet the u.n.'s timetable, while ignoring Somalia's complex political problems. "Anyone who's worked for unosom and the police and others who have cooperated with unosom, are in danger when we leave," says the military official. "By going ahead and putting people on these district and regional councils, we're probably sentencing them to death."

By the time that happens, however, the United States soldiers will be gone. And, if Col. Rausch and his jiblets succeed, it won't matter. The national consciousness will have been spun: we left Somalia on our own terms, we met our goals, we did the job right.

[Mochatanya]

** "**** this bicht".

There's no other feeling against this. Just "Shut this ***** off".

I was never so agree with Mad Mac about this bicht!. Shut the girl off!!

Here I am working with Iraki children, trying to bring a little peace to them, and this ***** goes with "You have to hate all non muslims". Here I'm to bring some peace to orphans and there' she goes saying that "Killing non muslims is OK".

I'm completly agree with Mac Mac: She's a *****! She's a prostitute of Islam. She's perverting islam. Look at her avatar: a covered woman with a gun. **

Where did she say that killing Muslims is ok? Where did she say that 'You have to hate all Muslims'

Why don't you bring some proof for once, instead of speaking from everywhere but your mind? How dare you call a prostitute, a bitch, when you yourself are crying about being called a kaffir which means 'NON-MUSLIM'. Where is Lionheart to chase you away when we need him?

[SoMaLiSiZz]

[quote="Mochatanya"]** "**** this bicht".

There's no other feeling against this. Just "Shut this ***** off".

I was never so agree with Mad Mac about this bicht!. Shut the girl off!!

Here I am working with Iraki children, trying to bring a little peace to them, and this ***** goes with "You have to hate all non muslims". Here I'm to bring some peace to orphans and there' she goes saying that "Killing non muslims is OK".

I'm completly agree with Mac Mac: She's a *****! She's a prostitute of Islam. She's perverting islam. Look at her avatar: a covered woman with a gun. **

Where did she say that killing Muslims is ok? Where did she say that 'You have to hate all Muslims'

Why don't you bring some proof for once, instead of speaking from everywhere but your mind? How dare you call a prostitute, a *****, when you yourself are crying about being called a kaffir which means 'NON-MUSLIM'. Where is Lionheart to chase you away when we need him? [/quote]

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Jzakum Allahu khern jza

[SoMaLiSiZz]

bissmeallah

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Show me where I said hate all non-Muslims? You don’t have to make up a lies you know, you are a grown man so act like one for god sake.

Anyone who slander our prophets (May peace and blessing be upon them) Allah aza wajal does not deserves any sympathy unless they are totally mentally unfit. (seriously am not being sarcastic)

The language you are using is absolutely disgusting but I would not blame you this is something you were fed from early age and to point out that you are serious about something or angry you have to talk in specific way. I can assure you it won’t break my bones and you are only degrading your self but you are not even conscious of it yet.

I can insult you and say 1001 bad things but it would be a lie and that is prohibited in Islam and really I don’t know you and I would not benefit anything from it...

Note; there is an obligation that comes with Islam and I am doing my job and if you don’t like it stop reading my threads or you just have to learn to live with it.

Take my advice and don’t stress your self because me it has never been in my intentions to hurt you feelings as you wish that people will consider your feelings consider my Muslim peoples feelings and stop talking ill about Islam..

Without any bullshit this is a sincere massage, we Muslims we hate someone for the sake of Allah because something ill they have done something “against our religion” and we love for the sake of Allah..


I know clearly where I stand in Islam, and if a fanatic terrorist extremist is one who fights for justice and honours for the sake of Allah, then I am proudly be called that..

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Am OuT

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Good B !tch satay the fuck out. You are sooooooo annoying.

Kamal, I haven't seen the documentary, would love to.

Don't have time right this second to read the rest of the thread, but I'll get to it.

I was not a member of Task Force Ranger. I was the Intelligence Officer for the Quick Reaction Force which, in concert with the Malaysians (who will always have my utmost respect) went in and pulled the Rangers out on that fateful night.

[biiqaaye]

[quote="MAD MAC"]


I was not a member of Task Force Ranger. I was the Intelligence Officer for the Quick Reaction Force which, in concert with the Malaysians (who will always have my utmost respect) went in and pulled the Rangers out on that fateful night.[/quote]

Mad, i knew u never had the balls to become a RANGER. you just can't ADMIT it, the RANGERS were tought a LESSON that night. and if it wasn't for those Pakistanis, maleysians, Bangladesh and all those multi-national forces who came to rescue your boys, the Americans would have lost more lifes. I was there in TOKYO, wardhiiiigleey that night. The Habargidir boys were fearless.

God bless Gen. Aidid.