The issue of the Niqab.

[Voltage]

So I had a very heated argument with another individual about the Niqab. My position was France has a right to ban the Niqab as Syria did and Egypt did and Somalia has or should do because it is not obligatory, pre-dates Islam, is not mentioned in the Sunnah or Qur'an, and today's society is a security risk. I don't know if the person is a man or a woman and as we have seen Niqab has been used more than couple times to commit terrorist acts such as suicide bombing and even have amorous relationships in it with men masquerading as women. For source I used multiple scholars including rulings by Al Azhar University. I also argued that one of Islam's more prominent objectives is the well being of society and to protect society from many of the problems today including security threats, a Muslim or non-Muslim leader can have the choice of banning the Niqab even if it is not outlawed in the Qur'an or Hadith. The other individual obviously disagreed with me and stressed that not only should it not be banned but that is "sunnah" if not outright required in the Qur'an and Hadith.

I need the more learned brothers to get in this.

[abdisamad3]

voltage how many suicide have you witnes wearing niqab?
and please dont give hotel shamo as an example becouse as we all know that turned out to be a lie.
anyway as I see it..its freedom of choice if some one chooses to wear what ever they like..who are you or another person to dictate what people should wear?

[Voltage]

But isn't the well being of society paramount? Niqab is not beneficial to society and at times is harmless as I have used couple times both with the suicide bombers as well as the guys wearing it to meet their girls that Al Shabaab themselves captured. In that sense shouldn't it be banned?

When you are in front of me wearing something that is not necessarily required and even may not even be Sunnah, but also has harm in it should it not be banned? I don't know if you are a man or woman, have a weapon, I don't know what you are under it.

[melo]

There is a concept in in Islam Fiqh (Maslaha? Not sure of the Arabic word) that allows the Islamic Amir or the culemaa to suspend something that is actually a part of Islam due to some larger picture. I know this is established in the Maliki madhab and is why Qardaawi in his fatwa banned Tawassul at Ziyaaro's in current times. So things that are allowed in Islam could be banned for the general benefit of society. The only people who can come to delineate on this matter are our scholars and rightful amirs (not a single one exists though atm ).

The Niqaab is undoubtedly a part of Islam. Islam is more than simply the Quran and sunnah exclusively, although there are proofs for the Niqaab in both texts. Islam includes the Ijma of the sahabah and the tradition from our legal schools of thoughts. When you look into all of those things, it becomes clear that there are strong arguments for Niqaab being either Sunnah or compulsory. I am of the view that its Sunnah and was only obligatory on the prophet's wives. This is the view of most of the prominent scholars of our Sunni tradition. The only people who argue it is compulsory as far as i'm aware are certain salafis. These salafis also believe that Women should not drive

Do i think banning the Niqaab would be good for society? No i do not. A lot of ladies do not feel comfortable walking outside with everyone glaring at their faces. A lot of women want to emulate the clothing of the prophet's wives. Banning the Niqaab completely would be an insult. Having said that, i do think the Niqaab wearing should be regulated, especially in the west. In areas of high security, the niqaab has to either be removed or some woman has to confirm the ID of the lady in question. People simply do not feel comfortable when someone is hiding their face. This is especially true when it comes to gaalo who don't share our diin.

I am not a big fan of the Niqaab personally. I'd strongly advise my wife or daughters not to wear it if they ever wanted to succeed on a material level.In contrast, you can be a great Muslilmah and succeed materially without the Niqaab. Why shun yourself from the goods of this world- Our religion allows us to enjoy this life too.

[Hyperactive]

if we want to get it technical, majority of imaams hold opinion that women is not obligated to cover face and hands, some scholars from hanbali madhab hold otherwise.
but they all agreed to show the face if there's masla7a 3aamah(such security of the community). it's one of the these issue scholars(depends on their community) disagree.

in qatar as well kuwait, you can wear but by law you should not drive while wearing, but they still do that because even traffic officer wife/sister/cousin/mom wears. so no one enforcing the law.

[Voltage]

Egypt Al-Azhar scholar supports French niqab ban

(AFP) – Sep 15, 2010

CAIRO — A leading cleric at Egypt's prestigious Al-Azhar Mosque on Wednesday applauded France's ban on the face veil worn by some devout Muslim women, saying the niqab harmed Islam's image.

Abdel Muti al-Bayyumi, a member of an influential council of clerics at al-Azhar, said the niqab, a full-face veil that leaves an opening for the eyes, "has no basis in Islamic law and there is nothing in the Koran or Sunna that supports it."

"I personally support (the ban) and many of my brothers in the Islamic Research Academy support it. My position against the niqab is actually older than France's," said Bayyumi, who has authored a book against the practice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... SJ8Mj9Qm6Q

[melo]

Egypt Al-Azhar scholar supports French niqab ban

(AFP) – Sep 15, 2010

CAIRO — A leading cleric at Egypt's prestigious Al-Azhar Mosque on Wednesday applauded France's ban on the face veil worn by some devout Muslim women, saying the niqab harmed Islam's image.

Abdel Muti al-Bayyumi, a member of an influential council of clerics at al-Azhar, said the niqab, a full-face veil that leaves an opening for the eyes, "has no basis in Islamic law and there is nothing in the Koran or Sunna that supports it."

"I personally support (the ban) and many of my brothers in the Islamic Research Academy support it. My position against the niqab is actually older than France's," said Bayyumi, who has authored a book against the practice.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... SJ8Mj9Qm6Q

Some of the Azhar culemaa, including the late Sheikh of Azhar Tantaawi (AUN) had a lot of strange, modernist opinions. With all due respect to the sheikh, the Niqaab being Sunnah or compulsory is held as far as i'm aware by all 4 school of thoughts. No school of thought dismissed it as mere culture.

[Voltage]

Hyper above you whose family is one of the most prominent Somali religious scholars above said it is neither compulsory nor necessarily sunnah.

[djibsomali]

Niqaab is an arab stuff and nothing to do with islam!

As a djiboutien; our great muftii Dr abdirahman barkat god who visited us in the uk during the christmas holidays confirmed that niqab is not obligatory and as a somalis we should avoid copying arabs by the letters!

[melo]

Hyper above you whose family is one of the most prominent Somali religious scholars above said it is neither compulsory nor necessarily sunnah.

Where abouts did Hyper say this?

if we want to get it technical, majority of imaams hold opinion that women is not obligated to cover face and hands, some scholars from hanbali madhab hold otherwise.

Isn't that what i exactly said?

but they all agreed to show the face if there's masla7a 3aamah(such security of the community). it's one of the these issue scholars(depends on their community) disagree.

i think i just described this.

As for the family thing, that point is weak. With all due respect to Hyper, the islamic legal discourse surrounding the niqaab can be accessed pretty easily. This isn't a complex legal issue. I mean, i can name somali sheiks too who are friends of my father, but it don't mind shit.

[gurey25]

Isnt is surprising that a practice that was not even native to the arabs of the prophet scw time but was perisan beame an islamic symbol.

The niqab is a persian invention, and was only used by the noble women particularly when travelling, the fashion spread to the Byzantians as well.
And we all know how scantily clad the greek women were of the period..

[Hyperactive]

voltage many scholars (specially Egyptian scholars) do not make or avoid bold statement like it's not from islam etc, i understand why though.

it's more opinion hold in al jazeera scholars.

my mother wears and one of the sister who is 16 while others dont. in my opinion if the sister wants to get modest and believed that, why not.
i just have problem people forcing it as MOST like wearing hijab.

[waryaa]

It should be banned for security and safely grounds. Your assassin may approach you in Niqab. What you see is an innocent looking very religious woman when the person inside is a bout to send you to your grave. What would you do if someone or a group of people in ski-masks approach you? Niqab is worse because at least you can guess the gender of those in ski-masks.

American soldiers in Iraq mistook a niqabi woman for a man. They tried to take off what they thought was a wig which refused to separate from the scull. It was on the news a year or so ago

[melo]

Isnt is surprising that a practice that was not even native to the arabs of the prophet scw time but was perisan beame an islamic symbol.

The niqab is a persian invention, and was only used by the noble women particularly when travelling, the fashion spread to the Byzantians as well.
And we all know how scantily clad the greek women were of the period..

Why do origins matter? Our Nabi saws did not discard everything from the Pagans. He kept a lot of their practices but modified them. Heck, the arabs worshiped a god name Allah, evidenced in the fact that our nabi saws's father was Abdullahi. Origins don't matter. The Islamic tradition always took practices and ideas that were good and did not contradict the religion.

[Niya]

What I don't get is the whole issue (brodering on obsession) regarding women's garb. (I posted an comment earlier and don't know what happened to it) In any case, this is a general comment.

I also heard that niqab was used in Iran by sun worshippers.

I would like to see more discussion/focus on living an ethical life rather than how an individual chooses to dress.

Substance over symbolism always.