Loss of US technological Lead

[gurey25]

Since the mid 80 the US has had the lead in the most important military field, fighter aircraft....

The race has always been a sea-saw battle, with one gaining advantage and the other getting it back and so on ...

With the F-22 and the collapse of the Soviet union we all thought that it was the end and that no one could ever challenge the US again because of the lead they have taken..
I honestly did not believe that we would see somebody catch up in my lifetime...
I was mistaken...

The lead the US has has been primarily in electronics and computer technology and Engine technology..

Now with the PAk-Fa from Sukhoi and the J-20 From Chengdu the US has lost the only advantage it had.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA
Thanks to Japanese electronics companies that wanted to put obscenely high tech chips in fridges and mobile phones
they have made these chips so cheap that Russia and China could close the lead the US had which was 15-20 years lead, down to 5 years..


These are commercial off the shelf (cots) components, that anybody can buy..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_off-the-shelf

The US has been using these GaA(Gallinium Arsnide ) chips since the late 90's exclusively for their Radar systems , and the
new GaN(Gallinium nitride) chips that are an better evolution were introduced a few years ago...

These were difficult to get and expensive and the US made sure they could not leak to the Russians and Chinese, but they didn't count on Toshiba, Hitachi and Matsushita and very soon probably a Taiwanese company in the future wanting to use them on Mobile phones and the Telecom Products.. especially good for Wimax

They have gone down in price and they are now available from several vendors..

and due to the cost advantages the US is using the same components in its mos high tech products e.g the F-22...


and who wins in the end the Japanese who supply 80% of the US's Military electronics and now Russia and China too.

[gurey25]

It also helps that US Corporations are out of control vampires that do not care about national interests but only money.
Their design philosophy is to take very high risk gambles technologically and try to create new technology out of thin air...

The result is very long development time and extremley crazy costs that even the US cannot afford resulting in stuff like the
$200 million a piece F-22.. and catasthrophic failures like the Joint Strike Fighter.

While the russians take a step by step approach and go for the most effective and cheapest solution..
and today they can give you 90% of the capability of an F-22 for 1/3 the price and they can give you something much better than a Joint Strike Fighter or a Europfighter for half the price.

The US politicians also help in creating this disastor for the US by cancelling the projects and only authorizing 187 aircraft....

They went for the Joint strike fighter the J-35 which is a lemon, a useless piece of shit that has already been made obsolete by the New improvements on the Su-35, before it has started production...

furthermore they did not allow their allies and potential customers to add their own systems to it, like the Israelis wanted to..
Isreal is getting the JSF and is not allowed to add Isreali electronics or missiles on to it...
Meaning that they will get a rubbish aircraft and will be spending till 2020 to try and cheat their way around this problem...


while anyone like Egypt or Iran if it is allowed to could by a Su-35 today and be confident in taking on anything in Israel's arsenal.

[Rightwing]

Gurey,
Thanks, you have presented very interesting articles.

Thanks to Japanese electronics companies that wanted to put obscenely high tech chips in fridges and mobile phones
they have made these chips so cheap that Russia and China could close the lead the US had which was 15-20 years lead, down to 5 years..

[udun]

It also helps that US Corporations are out of control vampires that do not care about national interests but only money.
Their design philosophy is to take very high risk gambles technologically and try to create new technology out of thin air...

The result is very long development time and extremley crazy costs that even the US cannot afford resulting in stuff like the
$200 million a piece F-22.. and catasthrophic failures like the Joint Strike Fighter.

While the russians take a step by step approach and go for the most effective and cheapest solution..
and today they can give you 90% of the capability of an F-22 for 1/3 the price and they can give you something much better than a Joint Strike Fighter or a Europfighter for half the price.

The US politicians also help in creating this disastor for the US by cancelling the projects and only authorizing 187 aircraft....

They went for the Joint strike fighter the J-35 which is a lemon, a useless piece of shit that has already been made obsolete by the New improvements on the Su-35, before it has started production...

furthermore they did not allow their allies and potential customers to add their own systems to it, like the Israelis wanted to..
Isreal is getting the JSF and is not allowed to add Isreali electronics or missiles on to it...
Meaning that they will get a rubbish aircraft and will be spending till 2020 to try and cheat their way around this problem...


while anyone like Egypt or Iran if it is allowed to could by a Su-35 today and be confident in taking on anything in Israel's arsenal.

Which means those Su-35 planes can be rendered useless in the event a war breaks out between Iran and Israel. The Russians are known to ground the chips in any technology they sold to a foreign country remotely in the event they, the Russians, choose to do so. In 2003 war between US-led coalition and Iraq, many of Iraqi AA batteries were good in the initial phase of the conflict, but suddently in the middle of the 2nd week of the conflict, those batteries became useless thay they started flowing in the air without going after any tragets. A similar problems occurred to the Egyptians in 1967 and 1973 wars.

The best option for any third world country is to either start an indigenous defense capabilities or buy them from a reliable country. For Muslim countries who are at war with Israel, Russia is the worst supplier to buy weapons from. Afterall, every body knows who the Ogilarchs who run Russia are

[gurey25]

Backdoor controls are common these days and difficult to detect but the biggest culprits in history are the French and Americans..

The Russians have never done it..

you wrote

A similar problems occurred to the Egyptians in 1967 and 1973

can you provide a source, becuase it is practically impossible in the 60 and 70s because the russians did not use integrated circuits till the mid 80's.. They were analogue systems..
you can only do this to fully digital systems...

The Russians are famous for providing to clients mickey mouse products i,e versions that are not up to standard.
|The russians for example provided the egyptians with level 2 versions of the Sam-6 which the egyptians used very well against the isrealis, they worked just fine..
The problem was that the Russians did not trust arabs with their best shit, which they kept for themselves..

This has changed today and becuase they need money, you will get the best they have.
They are selling to the chinese and Indians at the same time as the Russian airforce, and the profits from the sales go to equipping the russian airforce and re-couping R&D..

[gurey25]

by the way Udun this is not 1995 ther are no real Oligarchs left thanks to putin.
He has put them in their place and they have either run away or in prison and their wealth has been confiscated..

The only ones around are Russian nationalists and are well behaved pets of Putin..


and if you think the religion or ethnicity can influence things have you heard of Shafaq, Irans new Fighter program.

It turns out that this was MIG design that lost out to sukhoi, it has really good potential..
Russia stopped the deal to help the Iranians develop it in IRan due to US pressure..

but get this, they allowed the Mukhamadov OKB design bureau headed by one Mukhamedov a Tatar muslim,
to secretly develop it for the Iranians..
Mukhamadov OKB comes under MIG-MAAPO..

[udun]

by the way Udun this is not 1995 ther are no real Oligarchs left thanks to putin.
He has put them in their place and they have either run away or in prison and their wealth has been confiscated..

The only ones around are Russian nationalists and are well behaved pets of Putin..


and if you think the religion or ethnicity can influence things have you heard of Shafaq, Irans new Fighter program.

It turns out that this was MIG design that lost out to sukhoi, it has really good potential..
Russia stopped the deal to help the Iranians develop it in IRan due to US pressure..

but get this, they allowed the Mukhamadov OKB design bureau headed by one Mukhamedov a Tatar muslim,
to secretly develop it for the Iranians..
Mukhamadov OKB comes under MIG-MAAPO..

If Putin removed those Oligarchs and they are no longer in power, how is it possible that Russia refused to sell those S-300 Air Defense systems to Iran and Libya when they have already sold to India, Venezuela, and China? Even the ones Russia sold to Syria are unferior ones.

The recent passage of the UN resolution against Libya and Russia's abstain vote is clear enough who is running the show there!

[gurey25]

you dont know russians well do you...

The world does not revolve around those sneaky evil jews pulling strings behind all the major events..
The Jews/isrealis are a minor factor here..

about the oligarchs not all were jews but they were mostly jews, i can list all the ones that have been forced to quit and run in exile, the only ones in russia are nationalist and under total control of Putin...
Infact Putin is the new Czar and he doesnt like competition..

You have to understand the Russian mindset... they dont give a shit about isreal or jews, and they hate the muslims..
This is all about russia, all about russias advantage..

1. Russia offers S300 and even S-400 to the Iranians and they dangle this in front of the Americans.
2. Russia delays the sale of this due to some imaginary technical problems to allow the Americans and Isrealis time to start campaigning against this..
3. Russia gets heavy pressure to stop all this and is offered economic i.e trade advantages and the supply of banned high technology.
4. Russia refuses and talks about keeping its commitments all the while delaying the sale.
5. While delaying the sale, they supply the TOR missle system to Iran and they allow Belarus to supply some of their old S-300 to Iran secretly , and also from chavez venezuala. At same time upgrading the old Sam-6 with new radar and electronics making them difficult to jam and destroy.
6. Russia forces very generous trade terms and high technology sales from Europe and US and Isreal and in return stopping the Sale of the S-300 to Iran.



While this was all happenning there were over 500 russian engineers and Technicians helping the Iranians mass produce the S-300 system in Iran...
Iran anounces immedietly that they will produce their own version of the S-300...
and Ofcourse IF the Americans grill the Russians and try to discover this, they will get nowhere because the components that the Iranians are using to build their own S-300 are sourced from China
which has been producing their own version since 2000.



The Russians will use any advantage to bargian their way into the best position.
They have no scruples and no morals or honour, meaning that they will continue to be very successfull.

[ciyaal_warta]

interesting posts by gurey and Udun keep it following guys am learning new things here

[GeoDesic]

The reason Egyptian Air defences were successful initially and failed later in the war was because of American delivery of radar jamming equipments to israel. Americans learned from Vietnam that Sams combined with ground mobile radar were deadly to their jets, so they came up with Radar jamming technology. Some of the techniques the Americans used included dropping tons of metal pieces from their aircrafts to give the enemy radars false readings. Also, there are aircrafts specially designed to go in first to destroy all radar to clear the way for the following sorties of air-assaults.

[gurey25]

The reason Egyptian Air defences were successful initially and failed later in the war was because of American delivery of radar jamming equipments to israel. Americans learned from Vietnam that Sams combined with ground mobile radar were deadly to their jets, so they came up with Radar jamming technology. Some of the techniques the Americans used included dropping tons of metal pieces from their aircrafts to give the enemy radars false readings. Also, there are aircrafts specially designed to go in first to destroy all radar to clear the way for the following sorties of air-assaults.

yes they made a special category named Wild Weasal that focused on anti-SAM,
and they used anti-radiation missles like shrike...

The isrealis combined this with low flying tactics and reduced their losses..
and when sharon found that tiny gap between the egyptian armies and illegally explored it and attacked through it, the game was over...

[GeoDesic]

Would be interesting to see who comes up with the radar that detects the stealth fighter jets. The way they design these stealth aircrafts is to avoid radio wave reflection. Radars send radio waves that bounce off and back to the same radar from objects in the sky(aircrafts) and then make a lock on the position of the object that reflected the beam back. That is how Radar operators know where an airplane is up in the sky.The odd looks of stealth fighters comes from the objective of not having a reflective body. They also use paint/coating material that absorbs radio waves. Pure physics. I can't wait to find out what technology will beat the stealth technology and expose stealth jets in the sky.

[gurey25]

Would be interesting to see who comes up with the radar that detects the stealth fighter jets. The way they design these stealth aircrafts is to avoid radio wave reflection. Radars send radio waves that bounce off and back to the same radar from objects in the sky(aircrafts) and then make a lock on the position of the object that reflected the beam back. That is how Radar operators know where an airplane is up in the sky.The odd looks of stealth fighters comes from the objective of not having a reflective body. They also use paint/coating material that absorbs radio waves. Pure physics. I can't wait to find out what technology will beat the stealth technology and expose stealth jets in the sky.

There will always be something reflected back, stealth aircraft cannot absorb everything thrown at it, but what they reflect back is very very very low.. They call it RCS reduced cross section.

Now the the best guess from analysts that had to work what little was de-classified is that the F-22 for example has a RCs of .0001 square meters. this is tiny dot 1 millimiter square...

The JSF is guessed to be .001 1 sqaure centimeter this is allot bigger but still tiny..

Allot of Other Fighter do not have the specieal shape and rely on coatings and the Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-35 and Rafale
are around 2 meters square.. They make a big target and are easier to detect with radar..


Sounds like a difficult thing to do right, but get this modern radars are able to detect something like .01 to 1 meters sqaure
but at a close distance..
Russian radars can detect european fighters at a range of 70-100 nautical miles and they are not able to see an F22 till 10 to 15 nm by then you can probably see it anyway with your own eyes or you are dead.

because of this radars are will become secondary systems and everyone will depend on Infrared systems to detect..
Todays infrared detectors can see a stealth plane like the F-22 from 50 miles away that is if you are behind it..
You cannot hide the exhaust ..

and there has been a massive leap in infrared technology due to QWIP

tech..http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... vance.html

every country that is able to is right now working feverishly on this, and nobody has come up with a prototype yet
or they are not reporting it..

nerds like me have to wait for them to publish it in the media, till then we make educated guesses..

[GeoDesic]

Gurta, You think the downed heli will give some tech insight to US competitors? I noticed Pakis carting it off to some shop


Pakis have talented engineering pool and made their own fighter jets that are in service now.

[union]

Russia is slowly drinking its way to a premature death. It's no threat to anyone.

But China, with nearly a billion math geniuses, is bound for great heights and the resumption of its lead role.