Challenge to the secularists for debate

[grandpakhalif]

As we all know, there are many secularists on this forum who seek to mislead the people by validating the seperation of Islam and political affairs, this is absolute kufr and does not conform with the view of Islam.

The major scholars of Islam have said:

Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said:

And it is known by necessity in the Deen of the Muslims and by the agreement of all the Muslims that whoever follows a Sharee'ah other than the Sharee'ah of Muhammad then he is a Kaafir and it is like the Kufr of the one who believes in some of the Book and disbelieves in some of the Book." "Al-Fataawa", Vol. 28/ 524

Al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer said:

"So whoever leaves the clear Sharee'ah, which was revealed to Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, the Seal of the Prophets, and takes the Hukm to other than it from the laws of Kufr which are abrogated, he has disbelieved. So what about the one who takes the Hukm to the 'Yasaaq' (the law of the Tartars which mixed Sahree'ah rulings with invented rulings) and puts it before it?! Whoever does that, he has disbelieved by the Ijmaa' of the Muslims."
"Al-Bidaayah wa Nihaayah", Vol. 13/ 119

Shaikh 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn 'Abdullaah Ibn Baaz said:

"There is no Eemaan for the one who believes the laws of the people and their opinions are superior to the Hukm of Allaah and His Messenger or that they are equal to it or that they resemble it or who leaves it or replaces it with fabricated laws and institutions invented by people, even if he believes that the laws of Allaah are more encompassing and more just." "Risalaat Wujoob Tah'keem Sharee'at Allaah' Pg. 39, which follows the "Risalaat Tah'keem Al-Qawaneen" Published by "Daar Al-Muslim"

Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen said:

"The first type is when the Hukm of Allaah is removed and replaced with another Taghuutee Hukm, so that the Hukm of the Sharee'ah is eliminated between the people and he puts in its place another Hukm from the fabrication of the humans and they remove the laws of the Sharee'ah concerning the Mu'amilah (i. e. the general actions between people) and they put in its place fabricated laws and this, without doubt, is Istib'daal (i. e. replacement) of the Sharee'ah of Allaah subhaanahuu wa-ta'ala, with other than it. And this is Kufr which removes one from the Milla because this person put himself at the level of the Creator because he shara'a (legislated) for the slaves of Allaah that which Allaah ta'ala did not give permission for and that is Shirk in His, ta'ala's saying: "Or have they partners with Allâh (false gods), who have instituted for them a religion, which Allâh has not allowed?" (Ash-Shu'ara, 21) "Fiqh Al-' Eebaadaat", #60

Shaikh Muhammad Naasiruddin Al-Albaanee:

Who said, in one of his earlier cassette recorded lessons, wherein he is describing an argument he had with someone about the Takfeer of Mustafah Ataturk, the secularist who converted the constitution of Turkey from the Hanafee code Sharee'ah, to the man-made laws. So Shaykh Al-Albaanee said:
"I made clear to him (i. e. his opponent) that the Muslims did not make Takfeer to Ataturk who was Muslim. No. (They did so) when he freed himself from Islaam when he implicated upon the Muslims an institution other than the institution of Islaam. And from that was the example of his equalizing between the inheritance of the male and the female. But Allaah says according to us, 'And for the male is the share of two females. ' And then he obligated upon the Turkish masses, the Qobah (i. e. a Turkish-style hat)."
"Fataawa Ash-Shaykh al-Albaanee wa-Maqara'netihah bi'Fatawaa Al-' Ulaama", Pg. 263 from his cassette #171.
Shaikh Saalih al-Fowzaan said:
"So whoever takes the Hukm to other than the legislation of Allaah from all of the institutions and the man-made laws, then has taken the implicators of these laws and the ones who rule with them as partners with Allaah in his legislation. He, ta'ala said: 'Or do they have partners who have legislated for them what Allaah has not allowed? ' And He said: 'And if you obeyed them, then you are Mushrikeen. '
"Al-Irshaad ila'Saheeh Al-' Atiqaad ", Vol. 1/ 72

[934]

So you decided to bend over and take interest in dog shit on your path.

[grandpakhalif]

So you decided to bend over and take interest in dog shit on your path.

What are you talkin about? What is your stance on secularism?

[OHHLALA]

Genuine Question:

If i get a degree in Islam and write a book stating my interpretations of my faith and not misinterpreting people. I then gain a lot of respect from other "Islamic Scholars", does that make me a "Scholar" too? Basically what do i have to do to gain that title. I mean it'd be a nice title to have under my belt.

I don't know any Scholars so I dont have anyone to answer such a question, also the people at my local Masjid are racist, they aren't particularly fond of Somalis.

[garoweboy]

Shariah law

Allah Says In The Holy Quran:-
"And whosoever does not rule by what Allâh has revealed, such are the
disbelievers (Kâfirûn)”
(5:44)

[Basra-]

grandpa

i think u r retarded for making that arguement. Politics is missing in the Quran, however the emphasis of Islam and Allaah swt worship is rampant. Therefore, it is incumbent of the 'real' muslim to put ISLAM first, and foremost. As you know, Humans are the most selfish mammals ever created by Allaah swt, therefore, we must burden upon ourselves to overcome selfishness and rise above for the good of all Muslim ummah. We must ignore selfish earthly political greed and aspire to heaven. We must have compassion and unselfish need in order to rise above civil wars and qabil bickering. Not separating politics with Islam enables room for devils to work its magic. Diinta is supposed to be independent of personal gain and personal greed.IE....Politics MUST be separated from Politics. It should be a matter of bigger than mortal needs, but a nutritional incentive for our hope to gain the grace of Allaah swt.

[grandpakhalif]

Genuine Question:

If i get a degree in Islam and write a book stating my interpretations of my faith and not misinterpreting people. I then gain a lot of respect from other "Islamic Scholars", does that make me a "Scholar" too? Basically what do i have to do to gain that title. I mean it'd be a nice title to have under my belt.

I don't know any Scholars so I dont have anyone to answer such a question, also the people at my local Masjid are racist, they aren't particularly fond of Somalis.

I am actually not sure how a woman can become a scholar, where would they study? I am ignorant in this.

[Mureedi]

[quote="garoweboy"]Shariah law

Allah Says In The Holy Quran:-
"And whosoever does not rule by what Allâh has revealed, such are the
disbelievers (Kâfirûn)”
(5:44)[/quote]

That sums up everything, and anyone who deviates and makes kaafir-made system his ultimate principle, then they will answer to their creator

[Samatr]

so many internet sheikhs, the most ignorant are the ones that bark the loudest.
anybody can cut and paste information, understanding it is a whole different ball game.

[grandpakhalif]

Shariah law

Allah Says In The Holy Quran:-
"And whosoever does not rule by what Allâh has revealed, such are the
disbelievers (Kâfirûn)”
(5:44)

That sums up everything, and anyone who deviates and makes kaafir-made system his ultimate principle, then they will answer to their creator

Allahuakbar

[globetrotter2]

GrandpaKhalif,
Secularism is the notion that seeks to seperate state and religion; Secularism is not against islam or any other religion; it is against religion is in the public arena. It is not anti-islamic.

and you had the gutts to introduce a thread of how a religion rebuffs the tenents of secularism?


I think you should list why religious rule is good and/or why secularism is wrong.

[abdikarim86]

GrandpaKhalif,
Secularism is the notion that seeks to seperate state and religion; Secularism is not against islam or any other religion; it is against religion is in the public arena. It is not anti-islamic.

and you had the gutts to introduce a thread of how a religion rebuffs the tenents of secularism?


I think you should list why religious rule is good and/or why secularism is wrong.

Secularism is the separation of church and state.

Mida kale there ain't really a "church" in Islam, with all the complexity and heirarchy
the church has in western countries. Basically there isn't organised clergy in Islam.

So what are people like you trying to prevent?
Public shows of religion?

[globetrotter2]

Abdikarim,
"church" is not neccessarily the christian church. It is religious dogma. You need to enlighten yourself on this issue.

People that live in secular states have the right to practice any religion as long as they can keep it out of the public life; yes, I know that it is a difficult thing but that is the bases.

I have some questions for you and I hope you answer them honestly; this is a litmus test to see if you are a sincere muslim;

a) Tell us a non-secular country (or semi-secular) state that has succeeded in human, economic, and social development?
b) what is the alternative?
c) do you live in a secular country? my guess is that you are living in a secular country which you call home.
d) Most of the world's population does not live in a sharia run country; what would you do? force them to embrace sharia

You are been selective in reciting a verse of the quran

[JolieFille]

Only a secular society can succed



I support that all religious symbols gets banned outside one's home

Kemal Ataturk is a role model for all muslim leaders

[abdikarim86]

I think people might agree with you on keeping religion out of governance.
But to keep it out of society and have the state curb it is a whole other thing.

What your're suggesting is extreme secularism, and nobody wants that.