Soul and cloning.

[Samatar10]

I was just thinking the religions claim that souls inhabit biological bodies. There could be various accounts, but in general they are all certain of the existence of immortal soul.

One thing that get my attention is that once the soul enters the body. Is is at quickening? is it a conception? is it at birth? and how about cloned human?

If you put aside all the implications ofcoz ethical implications of clonin human, religious position will be that the specified soul already inhabits the appropriate body, so if humans were to be cloned, will religious position be that the clones does not possess a soul? if the religious position is the clones have soul, what will happen if million clones were produced? will each clones have separate soul, or will there be a single soul shared by many bodies?

[Paddington Bear]

Nurture, nature and a whole world of philosophy methinks.

[samadoon-waaxid]

the religion position is that nothing is created without ALLAH's permission.remember,scientists are not creating anything but merely duplicating and fusing.nothing is created without ALLAh's permission,and souls cant be split in half so it must be a new soul

[SultanOrder]

samtr do u have the image of a clone being made and already being age 30? Clone is just identical genes, it already happens naturally. Ever heard of identical twins? It can be the result of the cell after conception and during the process of dividing itself split into two, there by creating another identical cell which also transforms at the same rate as the original cell creating two offspring with the exact same genetical marker. If you understand this then your "philosphical thinking" becomes shallow and pointless.

[934]

Why don't you ask dolly the sheep?

[Paddington Bear]

Why don't you ask dolly the sheep?

That will make him the first psychic that talks to dead animals. Even better than Dr Dolittle.

[Twist]

Guys, don't fall for this guy and his circle.

There's another guy that had multiple usernames (due to successive banning) in Somalilife whose main reason of presence in there was to get all kinds of ill and sensitive stuff about Islam and confuse people. If you ask anyone from Somalilife they'll tell you. Some of his Slife aliases were Mozart, Trazom (Mozart in reverse) Amadeus, Wolfgang etc.

And if this Samatar10 is the one from Slife then he's one of that guy's followers (or one of his multiple usernames). Watch and see in the near future.

[Samatar10]

Nurture, nature and a whole world of philosophy methinks.

You appear to be responding to someone else. I didn't mention nature and nurture think.

[Samatar10]

the religion position is that nothing is created without ALLAH's permission.remember,scientists are not creating anything but merely duplicating and fusing.nothing is created without ALLAh's permission,and souls cant be split in half so it must be a new soul

This is the kind of thing that could be problematic.

If souls were all created in the beginning, they must be finite according to the number of humans according to The Plan. Unless souls reincarnate, wouldn't cloning exhaust them at a faster rate? and if clones get new soul, why is cloning not allowed in religion?

[Samatar10]

Guys, don't fall for this guy and his circle.

There's another guy that had multiple usernames (due to successive banning) in Somalilife whose main reason of presence in there was to get all kinds of ill and sensitive stuff about Islam and confuse people. If you ask anyone from Somalilife they'll tell you. Some of his Slife aliases were Mozart, Trazom (Mozart in reverse) Amadeus, Wolfgang etc.

And if this Samatar10 is the one from Slife then he's one of that guy's followers (or one of his multiple usernames). Watch and see in the near future.

I am not interested in your myopic strawman construction which is just an excuse for you to engage in your typical public self ego stroking. You didn't even bother to read the OP, just ran off with your haughty displays of vacuity.

You are taking this thread off topic because you have erroneously read an agenda into the OP which was a serious post, with a serious question that you failed to notice or to reply to.

[Samatar10]

samtr do u have the image of a clone being made and already being age 30? Clone is just identical genes, it already happens naturally. Ever heard of identical twins? It can be the result of the cell after conception and during the process of dividing itself split into two, there by creating another identical cell which also transforms at the same rate as the original cell creating two offspring with the exact same genetical marker. If you understand this then your "philosphical thinking" becomes shallow and pointless.

I presume that the religious explanation of twins is that it is as natural as a single birth, so they have two souls.

While there might be a spectrum of possible religious answers for your examples, I'd prefer that any theist tackling the OP would stick to the cloned human question.

[Witticism]

Very very very few religions hold that identical twins share a soul, or that only one of them have it. I imagine some small third world local beliefs may hold something like that, somewhat like some south east asian believe that twins of different genders are reincarnations of lovers that were hindered in the previous life, and so mandatorily marry them together... some religions do hold strange ideas about twins, but none of the major religions hold anything like an idea that twins share a soul or only one of them have it. and why did u pressume instead of looking up if twins at birth have 2 souls.

[SultanOrder]

the religion position is that nothing is created without ALLAH's permission.remember,scientists are not creating anything but merely duplicating and fusing.nothing is created without ALLAh's permission,and souls cant be split in half so it must be a new soul

This is the kind of thing that could be problematic.

If souls were all created in the beginning, they must be finite according to the number of humans according to The Plan. Unless souls reincarnate, wouldn't cloning exhaust them at a faster rate? and if clones get new soul, why is cloning not allowed in religion?

Yes in your first assertion that souls are finite is correct. Your second assertion that cloning humans would be outside of the "The Plan" is wrong.

[Samatar10]

Very very very few religions hold that identical twins share a soul, or that only one of them have it. I imagine some small third world local beliefs may hold something like that, somewhat like some south east asian believe that twins of different genders are reincarnations of lovers that were hindered in the previous life, and so mandatorily marry them together... some religions do hold strange ideas about twins, but none of the major religions hold anything like an idea that twins share a soul or only one of them have it. and why did u pressume instead of looking up if twins at birth have 2 souls.

in the post you have responded to, I haven't so much as mentioned twins, so what are you responding to?

Actually, some member brought up the notion of twins in the next post. Which brings us to an towering irony as you quote my response to the OP

Your post expressed that religion do not have anything like the idea of shared souls, or only one of them have a soul, WHICH RESULTS twins have soul.

Then you followed by quoting where I say “ religious explanation would simpy say twins have 2 souls”.

Your earlier rant was on agreement with me, but still you thought your point will be more relevant than mine.

Instead of noticing that you concluded the same thng as I had, your desire to propound your wisdom overrode you reading comprehension.

You decided you should focus on the word ‘presume’ and instruct me to look into it. It is like asking someone who is native of the language to look it up. I think this is known as ‘epic failure’.

Just because I chose to engage in comparative theology, which I’m perfectly capable of, doesn’t mean I am unaware of the various religious positions with respect to teaching about SOULS. Had you bothered to inquire first, you might have discovered that, however you haven’t answered the questions I raised in respect to CLONING.

[Samatar10]

the religion position is that nothing is created without ALLAH's permission.remember,scientists are not creating anything but merely duplicating and fusing.nothing is created without ALLAh's permission,and souls cant be split in half so it must be a new soul

This is the kind of thing that could be problematic.

If souls were all created in the beginning, they must be finite according to the number of humans according to The Plan. Unless souls reincarnate, wouldn't cloning exhaust them at a faster rate? and if clones get new soul, why is cloning not allowed in religion?

Yes in your first assertion that souls are finite is correct. Your second assertion that cloning humans would be outside of the "The Plan" is wrong.

LOL. ok, but you said " souls can't split in half, so it must be new soul" cloning i assume.

If God creates the soul and plants it in the cloned human; isn't he thereby justifying it as a valid, unique human, and therefore strict believers should have no ethical issues with cloned humans.