INSIDE SOMALIA-THE FRONTLINE : A NTV VIDEO FEATURE

[Meru]

NOW AMISOM controls 60-70% of MoGADISHU

[globetrotter2]

Mzee Meru, I doubt that Amison controls 60-70 of Mogadishu as stated.Alshabab is a cancer. The presence of Amison or foreign forces will only help them recruit. To get rid of this cancer, the international community has two options;

1) Create stable and secular state in the Arab countries; the wahabi schools in Saudi Arabia should be shut down. This is where Al-shabab gets inspiration, knowlege and discourse
2) Include leaders of Al-sheydhan in the government (the frequent flyer with herpes mouth aka Mr president is a shababi). Despite their loud mouth, I think they are not capable of spreading their vernom to outside somali areas (kenya should view the somalis in the NFD as proper citizens and remove all the road blocks, stop asking for IDs and investigate the many massacres in the NFD); Ethiopia should also treat somalis better. With that the Al-kebabis will not have an argument.

Let us suppose that Amison or any other force captures all of somalia; who is going to rule? Somalis have the tendancy to rally behind their brethen.

I sincerely think the Ugandans and Burundi's are there with a good will but the answer to treating this cancer lies with somalis.

If the above options fail somalia will in the short term need a dictator.

[Meru]

Mzee Meru, I doubt that Amison controls 60-70 of Mogadishu as stated.Alshabab is a cancer. The presence of Amison or foreign forces will only help them recruit. To get rid of this cancer, the international community has two options;

1) Create stable and secular state in the Arab countries; the wahabi schools in Saudi Arabia should be shut down. This is where Al-shabab gets inspiration, knowlege and discourse
2) Include leaders of Al-sheydhan in the government (the frequent flyer with herpes mouth aka Mr president is a shababi). Despite their loud mouth, I think they are not capable of spreading their vernom to outside somali areas (kenya should view the somalis in the NFD as proper citizens and remove all the road blocks, stop asking for IDs and investigate the many massacres in the NFD); Ethiopia should also treat somalis better. With that the Al-kebabis will not have an argument.

Let us suppose that Amison or any other force captures all of somalia; who is going to rule? Somalis have the tendancy to rally behind their brethen.

I sincerely think the Ugandans and Burundi's are there with a good will but the answer to treating this cancer lies with somalis.

If the above options fail somalia will in the short term need a dictator.

WELL SAID. i think the blunder started when ethiopia drove out the ICU which shariff was a member then the shabab sprung up and aweys supported them after he felt betrayed by shariff. if ICU was still around somalia would have been stable now. but as you know most countries in the west are jittery about islamist taking over. and the AMISOM role is to prevent that evevn if it means just staying in the presidentia lpalace, i think the west is hAPPY as long s kebabs dont take over the country and government,thats why the proxy war and suffering in somalia continues. then the qabil thing is so deep rooted that foreigners take advantage of the situation. but to me and other kenyans AMISOM presence there is welcome. the problem we have with somalis is that we doubt their loyalty and allegiance,thats why there are problems of road blocks and ID issue. but that can be solved. as you say somalia needs a strong dictator first before getting to the level of democracies and open society like kenya and the west. somalis should alsoknow that there CAN NEVER be somaliweyne and realise there only hope is cooperating with neighbouring countries

[globetrotter2]

Meru, I have a somali-kenyan friend and he tells me that somalis in the NEP have been marginalised since independence. According to him ( and I have verfied with several sources), Kenyan somalis are still subjected to inhuman treatement and suspicion. This should end; kenya can strengthen and move the roadblocks to the borders not have them north of Mwingi. As long as this continues, the al-kebabs will come to the NEP.

If somalis in the NEP and Ethiopia are granted civil rights, Al-kebab will be a problem only in somalia. The frequent flyer president, former quran teacher and shebab member is hampering efforts.

Let us focus on this scenario;
- A conference is held in somalia and the international community guarantees that al-shabab members will be forgiven and included into the government on two conditions; 1) they will not export their reign of terror to other countries 2) they are included into the government - and I mean given the post of president or prime minsiter 3)The frequent flyer president resigns and leaves power .

Since power corrupts I am sure the lure of travelling overseas and been recognised will be enough. This is by the way the same strategy that is used in Afghanistan.

Why you might ask; unless these motherfuckers are included into the government civilian casualties through bombs will be a reality.
Iraq and Afghanistan should teach us a lesson; daily bombings although the governments are in control.
As for Amison, I think they need to leave. As things stand they are viewed as occupiers.

I know this is a horrible proposal but I think it is the only strategy.

The question remains though will the inclusion of al-sheydhan mean islamic rule; hell no.

[Meru]

Meru, I have a somali-kenyan friend and he tells me that somalis in the NEP have been marginalised since independence. According to him ( and I have verfied with several sources), Kenyan somalis are still subjected to inhuman treatement and suspicion. This should end; kenya can strengthen and move the roadblocks to the borders not have them north of Mwingi. As long as this continues, the al-kebabs will come to the NEP.

If somalis in the NEP and Ethiopia are granted civil rights, Al-kebab will be a problem only in somalia. The frequent flyer president, former quran teacher and shebab member is hampering efforts.

Let us focus on this scenario;
- A conference is held in somalia and the international community guarantees that al-shabab members will be forgiven and included into the government on two conditions; 1) they will not export their reign of terror to other countries 2) they are included into the government - and I mean given the post of president or prime minsiter 3)The frequent flyer president resigns and leaves power .

Since power corrupts I am sure the lure of travelling overseas and been recognised will be enough. This is by the way the same strategy that is used in Afghanistan.

Why you might ask; unless these motherfuckers are included into the government civilian casualties through bombs will be a reality.
Iraq and Afghanistan should teach us a lesson; daily bombings although the governments are in control.
As for Amison, I think they need to leave. As things stand they are viewed as occupiers.

I know this is a horrible proposal but I think it is the only strategy.

The question remains though will the inclusion of al-sheydhan mean islamic rule; hell no.

kenyan somalis are benefiting very much in kenya they hold high positions and are becoming influential,the key to somalis success in kenya lies in integration,you know seclusion creates fear,most kenya feared somalis because they are secluded but things have changed kenyan somalis are now becoming more intergrated in the society and getting new positions,they no longer live just in eastleigh you will find them everywhere. so the worst is past,now things are good. as for the kebab, kenya had proposed what you wrote above, there integration in the new somalia,but america and eu declined. as you know most of kenyas foreign policy is heavily influenced by these coumntries who have an hidden hand in kenyan matters. just the other day obama shamelessy ordered kenya to close its embassy in libya http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/news/Ins ... 8385&cid=4&, just imagine. the best friend somalis will have in this entire world is kenya no one else and you somalis know that. thats why i want a peaceful somali in EAC,roads and railways to be built between the 2 counties and freedom of movement just like how ugandans,tanzanian,kenyans move in east africa without a problem

[union]

Whatever you must do our pugnosed brothers, rid us of these shababs.

[Meru]

Whatever you must do our pugnosed brothers, rid us of these shababs.

brother are you trying to patronize me you prefer this

anyway we will wipe out all shabab for you be patient as i write there are predator drones searching for them cowardly punks that wanna take Somalia back to stone age,

[globetrotter2]

Meru, I have a somali-kenyan friend and he tells me that somalis in the NEP have been marginalised since independence. According to him ( and I have verfied with several sources), Kenyan somalis are still subjected to inhuman treatement and suspicion. This should end; kenya can strengthen and move the roadblocks to the borders not have them north of Mwingi. As long as this continues, the al-kebabs will come to the NEP.

If somalis in the NEP and Ethiopia are granted civil rights, Al-kebab will be a problem only in somalia. The frequent flyer president, former quran teacher and shebab member is hampering efforts.

Let us focus on this scenario;
- A conference is held in somalia and the international community guarantees that al-shabab members will be forgiven and included into the government on two conditions; 1) they will not export their reign of terror to other countries 2) they are included into the government - and I mean given the post of president or prime minsiter 3)The frequent flyer president resigns and leaves power .

Since power corrupts I am sure the lure of travelling overseas and been recognised will be enough. This is by the way the same strategy that is used in Afghanistan.

Why you might ask; unless these motherfuckers are included into the government civilian casualties through bombs will be a reality.
Iraq and Afghanistan should teach us a lesson; daily bombings although the governments are in control.
As for Amison, I think they need to leave. As things stand they are viewed as occupiers.

I know this is a horrible proposal but I think it is the only strategy.

The question remains though will the inclusion of al-sheydhan mean islamic rule; hell no.

kenyan somalis are benefiting very much in kenya they hold high positions and are becoming influential,the key to somalis success in kenya lies in integration,you know seclusion creates fear,most kenya feared somalis because they are secluded but things have changed kenyan somalis are now becoming more intergrated in the society and getting new positions,they no longer live just in eastleigh you will find them everywhere. so the worst is past,now things are good. as for the kebab, kenya had proposed what you wrote above, there integration in the new somalia,but america and eu declined. as you know most of kenyas foreign policy is heavily influenced by these coumntries who have an hidden hand in kenyan matters. just the other day obama shamelessy ordered kenya to close its embassy in libya http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/news/Ins ... 8385&cid=4&, just imagine. the best friend somalis will have in this entire world is kenya no one else and you somalis know that. thats why i want a peaceful somali in EAC,roads and railways to be built between the 2 counties and freedom of movement just like how ugandans,tanzanian,kenyans move in east africa without a problem

As a panafricanist my dream is to remove all political borders.
Yes, Kenyan somalis have taken high positions. But that alone is not enough. Kenya has to come to terms with its past of marginalising and still having emergency laws. There is no justification for having roadblocks north of Mwingi. This will only give advantage to al-kebabs and the like. The roadblocks were there before the onset of the maligma of terrorism.

Eastleigh appears to be a country within a country; it should be developed; traders should be forced to pay taxes and security strengthened.

If Africa is to move forward it should not listen to other countries to dictate its internal dynamics.

The alkabaabs thrive on injustices; remember that is what brought them to power in somalia and that is why they still hold a large chunk of the countries; to defeat them you need to improve the lives of the people, create a judicial infrastructure that helps the havenots.

That is my strategy of defeating this cancer. Corrupted governments like the TFG, warlords, poverty, show me ID cards and roadblocks is what strengthens their hold on power.

[Meru]

As a panafricanist my dream is to remove all political borders.
Yes, Kenyan somalis have taken high positions. But that alone is not enough. Kenya has to come to terms with its past of marginalising and still having emergency laws. There is no justification for having roadblocks north of Mwingi. This will only give advantage to al-kebabs and the like. The roadblocks were there before the onset of the maligma of terrorism.

Eastleigh appears to be a country within a country; it should be developed; traders should be forced to pay taxes and security strengthened.

If Africa is to move forward it should not listen to other countries to dictate its internal dynamics.

The alkabaabs thrive on injustices; remember that is what brought them to power in somalia and that is why they still hold a large chunk of the countries; to defeat them you need to improve the lives of the people, create a judicial infrastructure that helps the havenots.

That is my strategy of defeating this cancer. Corrupted governments like the TFG, warlords, poverty, show me ID cards and roadblocks is what strengthens their hold on power.

i agree with you on all except the roadblock issue,most countries have them for security matter not just kenya,i have been in many countries in africa and all bordering areas you meet a checkpoint that is necessary to weed out illegal immigrants,terrorists, smuggling etc. even us Kenyans we face roadblocks alot so its not unique to north of mwingi thats an exaggeration brother. and many criminals and threats to the security have been shot dead at police roadblocks in nairobi and mombasa,if it was not for that road block in Mogadishu ,terrorist faizal could not have been killed!!!
so i hope you get me

[globetrotter2]

Meru, I am not talking about the roadblocks along the border! I meant the roadblocks north of Mwingi. I have travelled alot in Africa and through out the globe. It is only in Kenya that I found institutionalised roadblocks that only affect one tribe of many.

Roadblocks to catch thieves is one thing but instutionalised roadblocks are another thing!

I have travelled from Nairobi to Tanzania; no roadblocks before you reach the boarder; the same for the road to Ethiopia and Uganda. Why do you have 23 roadblocks in the NEP? That is hard to swallow and difficult to defend; those who claim that these are racist roadblocks have an easy task of convincing that that is the case.

My friend, Al-sheydhan ideology will not survive one day in the NEP if Kenya views somali kenyans as their own people.

BTW; visit this blog if you have the time. There are numerous articles on the marginalisation of the region.


http://kenyasomali.blogspot.com/

On a related issue; is it true that the results of the kenyan census was not made official because the number of somalis exceeded projections?

P.s the roadblocks in Mogadishu cannot be compared to the ones in Kenya. Most of the time the roadblocks in somalia are not for political or security reasons just economic reason pps

[globetrotter2]

Horrible news: One of the daughters of the NFD has left us http://hiiraan.com/news2/2011/July/dekh ... ident.aspx

[Meru]

it is obvious that the census result from NEP were seriously flawed that is scientific, they beat any logic in demographics for example when you tabulate the 1999 census and subtract them from the 2009 you will realize that serious disparities exists lets not get into propaganda about this. NEP IS NOT THE ONLY region that is left behind in development,turkana,pokot even the coast and many more. moi is to blame for this we all suffered there is nothing unique about the suffering in NEP apart from the security operation that led to innocent deaths,but dont forget even mt.elgon and other areas even central have experienced police brutality. economically few regions have benefited in Kenya. somalis need to get above petty politics in the village eti the roadblocks ARE A RACIAL BARRIER ,THAT SOUNDED SO FUNNY TO ME,ROADBLOCKS HAVE FINISHED BANDITRY IN NEP and many residents are happy all other is propaganda and honestly if they were not there that would be inviting chaos in kenya. till when somalia is secure they have to be there for the good of somalis and kenyans all. i urge you to avoid cheap politics

[globetrotter2]

Mzee Meru, you have a point. Moi had marginalised many tribes and that kenya has developed unevenly.
Let us be honest;
The only logical conclusion that could be drawn from the many roadblocks north of Mwingi is the presence of somalis. You have to look at history; the referendum in the so called NFD, the shifta wars, the massacres (wagalla, malkare and Garissa). I have been doing to some readings of the NEP ( I mean scientific articles not the armchair, pub-coffee house, miraa outlet kind of research) and the picture that emerges is a government (kenya) that has treated its citizens as foreigners. Some of the emergency laws that were enacted in 67 are still not repealed !

This is a shame to the nation of Kenya. This kind of ills will play in the hands of al-kebab and others.
In fact, Kenya has tried to improve following the election violence and it is the right time for Kenya to book those reponsible for the aforementioned massacres.

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere ; was it Martin Luther king that said that?

Regarding the census, I have been reading about it and the government should have called all of it null and void; they shouldn't have pinpointed some regions.

I am sorry to divert your topic in this direction but I strong feel that the somali problem - with alkebab at the helm- might spillover into neighbouring countries. And in order to avoid this, it is vital that steps are taken to improve not only the socio-economic conditions of the inhabitants of not only the NEP but to learn from past mistakes!

[Meru]

Mzee Meru, you have a point. Moi had marginalised many tribes and that kenya has developed unevenly.
Let us be honest;
The only logical conclusion that could be drawn from the many roadblocks north of Mwingi is the presence of somalis. You have to look at history; the referendum in the so called NFD, the shifta wars, the massacres (wagalla, malkare and Garissa). I have been doing to some readings of the NEP ( I mean scientific articles not the armchair, pub-coffee house, miraa outlet kind of research) and the picture that emerges is a government (kenya) that has treated its citizens as foreigners. Some of the emergency laws that were enacted in 67 are still not repealed !

This is a shame to the nation of Kenya. This kind of ills will play in the hands of al-kebab and others.
In fact, Kenya has tried to improve following the election violence and it is the right time for Kenya to book those reponsible for the aforementioned massacres.

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere ; was it Martin Luther king that said that?

Regarding the census, I have been reading about it and the government should have called all of it null and void; they shouldn't have pinpointed some regions.

I am sorry to divert your topic in this direction but I strong feel that the somali problem - with alkebab at the helm- might spillover into neighbouring countries. And in order to avoid this, it is vital that steps are taken to improve not only the socio-economic conditions of the inhabitants of not only the NEP but to learn from past mistakes!

AM AFRAID YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE SITUATION YOU ARE ONE OF THE SOMALIS THAT ARE MISLED OR MISLEADING OTHERS THE NEW CONSTITUTION WIPES OUT ALL THOSE LAWS YOU TALK ABOUT. please i see your mind is made up so i cant convince you otherwise but what i can assure you is that if al-shabab dares to spillover their stoneage anarchy in kenya we will liquidate them ruthlessly,kenya will not hestitate to use all might at its disposal infact this is the excuse the authorities are looking for to invade south somalia and wipe them out,they do not stand a chance i can assure you

[globetrotter2]

I know the new constitution wipes out that; wait again, you are shooting yourself in the leg here buddy; are you admitting that these wrongs were done?. But these are facts I have stated. I am not misled and there is nothing propagandist in what I wrote. I merely stated the facts based on data and observations.

As I wrote earlier, I wish all the borders vanished from Africa.

On the contrary I see you defending obvious injustices. This is the problem with Africa as a whole one can argue; we defend wrongs!

I just hope the "new constitution" wipes out the roadblocks.

Anyway, have a good day, I am off to bed