What is Salafi? Is It A Innovation? New Word?

[Murax]

Was it invented by the CIA, Mossad, Saudi Royal Family? Many of us are unclear on the orgins of the word. Infact many of us believe that the word/movement was invented between a meeting between the Saudi Royal Family and the US as a way to find a way to stifle Islam. I Myself didn't know until not so long ago. Here are are sayings of scholars some who lived as as early as the 3rd 4th generation using the word Salafi. The books, page numbers are all listed for reference.




Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Tayyimah Rahimahullah
lbn Taymiyyah (d.728H) - rahimahullaah - said: "There is no criticism for the one who proclaims the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf, who attaches himself to it and refers to it. Rather, it is obligatory to accept that from him by unanimous agreement (Ittifaaq) because the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf is nothing but the Truth (Haqq)." [Majmoo al-Fataawaa 4:149]



"Know that there is nothing (indicated by) sound and clear intellect nor from any authentic report that obligates opposition to the way of Salafiyyah, fundamentally.." (al-Fataawaa al-Hamawiyyah p.34.

Imam Adh-Dhahabee one of the 6 scholars of Hadith rahimuhullah "It is authentically related from ad-Daarqutnee that he said: "There is nothign more despised by me than 'ilmul-kalaam (innovated speech and rhetorics). I say: No person sould ever enter into 'ilmul-kalaam nor argumentation. Rather He should be Salafee (a follower of the Salaf) " {Siyar 16/457}

Abu Haneefah (d.150H) Rahimahullah said: "Adhere to the athar (narraration) and the tareeqah (way) of the Salaf (Pious Predecessors) and beware of newly invented matters for all of it is innovation". (Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al Mantaq wal-Kalaam p.32)


Imam Muslim the author of the 2nd most regarded compilation of Saheeh Ahadeeth after Bukhaari writes in His introduction the saying of Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak – which he would say in front of all the people, "Abandon the hadeeths of Amr bin Thaabit, for he used to abuse the Salaf" P.16


I cannot copy and paste Arabic on this forum, but on this link for the ones who prefer the Arabic text You can get it here: http://www.sahab.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=124357


You can also find more here:
http://www.alamuae.com/vb/t172735.html

[Thuganomics]

Are you saying you're surprised the word existed prior to the Wahabi movement yacni

[Shirib]

Jadiidi's rub me the wrong way

[Murax]

Jadiidi's rub me the wrong way

What is Jadiidi?

[Shirib]

Jadiidi's rub me the wrong way

What is Jadiidi?

The tyrannical apologists that granpakhalif supports

[SultanOrder]

Murax can you please elaborate your point? If the term "salafi" was used before then...

[Murax]

Murax can you please elaborate your point? If the term "salafi" was used before then...

Then it is not a new term, or some gimmick invention but something that goes back a very long time ago, and that the old classical scholars like the ones I mentioend above ascribed to it.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

in arabic word SALAFI or salaf actually means ancestors forefather? this word has nothing magical or holy about it.. Arabs in Arabia they always fellowed their Arab ancestors ot forfathers! thats why its called in arabi salafi.. non arabic people has being lied because Salafi followers translate this word as Sahaba of prophets people who saw the prophet or the generetion after them. but thats big lie. been abuur. all salafi books has nothing to do whit first generation of the time of prophet sc and 2 generetion after them.. salafis the man they often follow or their mini prophet is called IBN THAYMIYAH and he was living 13th century or about 700 years go. hewas born when islam was more than 600 years old...

[Murax]

in arabic word SALAFI or salaf actually means ancestors forefather? this word has nothing magical or holy about it.. Arabs in Arabia they always fellowed their Arab ancestors ot forfathers! thats why its called in arabi salafi.. non arabic people has being lied because Salafi followers translate this word as Sahaba of prophets people who saw the prophet or the generetion after them. but thats big lie. been abuur. all salafi books has nothing to do whit first generation of the time of prophet sc and 2 generetion after them.. salafis the man they often follow or their mini prophet is called IBN THAYMIYAH and he was living 13th century or about 700 years go. hewas born when islam was more than 600 years old...

Salaf are those that passed
Khalaf are those that came after.


The Khalaf follow the Salaf in worship and creed. You're right there is nothing magical about it, it is not a closed door group, private membership it is just following the pious predecessors in good. Thats all . Its not some cult, or a term invented recently.

[SultanOrder]

No, I think some people have misconstrued the argument, and have attacked the terminology. In reality most muslims believe to be following the salaf, and if they are going contrary to the salaf then they are going contrary to Islam. Why is this, because the Salaf as Salihiin are the first three generations of the Ummah, and therefore our spiritual and knowledge heritage of our deen. Most of us agree upon this.

As for the present day Salafiyya movement (1700's- present day) , it saw itself within a context of innovation and divergence from the way of the salaf as salihiin. And therefore, needed to reform the developed "controversies" and "innovations" of modern day Islam (after the third generation to present day) by reorienting themselves back to the salaf.

Have we gone so wrong that we need to turn back to the salfs? This is the point of contention.

For example:

Imam Adh-Dhahabee one of the 6 scholars of Hadith rahimuhullah "It is authentically related from ad-Daarqutnee that he said: "There is nothign more despised by me than 'ilmul-kalaam (innovated speech and rhetorics). I say: No person should ever enter into 'ilmul-kalaam nor argumentation. Rather He should be Salafee (a follower of the Salaf) " {Siyar 16/457}

Well, there is a whole field of developed "ilmul Kalaam" (dialectical Theology), two well developed schools of the Ashari'is and Matrudi's. These schools have developed to safeguard Islam from extreme theologies such as the Matuzilites, Musabiha, Qadiriyaa, Jabiriyya, etc.

The members of Ashari'is are many great scholars, such Imam Hajar a student of Imam Adh-Dhahabee.

So, just because the Salaf had a view on a thing, doesn't mean it is the only or correct view. What I mean specifically is that, the salafi did not just as Imam Daarqutnee mentions engage in Ilmul Kalaam or not too in depth into it, but later muslims did and for good reason. We do not throw away the development of the Islam, just to have the stance of the Salafi.

So to rap up my point, the point of contention is not that muslims disagree that the Salaf's as Salihiin are our heritage and basis of our Deen. But that the later development of and elaboration of the Deen. Those who have some disagreements with the present Salafi movement is some of their rejection of the development of Islam long after the salaf as salihiin.

[Murax]

No, I think some people have misconstrued the argument, and have attacked the terminology. In reality most muslims believe to be following the salaf, and if they are going contrary to the salaf then they are going contrary to Islam. Why is this, because the Salaf as Salihiin are the first three generations of the Ummah, and therefore our spiritual and knowledge heritage of our deen. Most of us agree upon this.

As for the present day Salafiyya movement (1700's- present day) , it saw itself within a context of innovation and divergence from the way of the salaf as salihiin. And therefore, needed to reform the developed "controversies" and "innovations" of modern day Islam (after the third generation to present day) by reorienting themselves back to the salaf.

Have we gone so wrong that we need to turn back to the salfs? This is the point of contention.

For example:

Imam Adh-Dhahabee one of the 6 scholars of Hadith rahimuhullah "It is authentically related from ad-Daarqutnee that he said: "There is nothign more despised by me than 'ilmul-kalaam (innovated speech and rhetorics). I say: No person should ever enter into 'ilmul-kalaam nor argumentation. Rather He should be Salafee (a follower of the Salaf) " {Siyar 16/457}

Well, there is a whole field of developed "ilmul Kalaam" (dialectical Theology), two well developed schools of the Ashari'is and Matrudi's. These schools have developed to safeguard Islam from extreme theologies such as the Matuzilites, Musabiha, Qadiriyaa, Jabiriyya, etc.

The members of Ashari'is are many great scholars, such Imam Hajar a student of Imam Adh-Dhahabee.

So, just because the Salaf had a view on a thing, doesn't mean it is the only or correct view. What I mean specifically is that, the salafi did not just as Imam Daarqutnee mentions engage in Ilmul Kalaam or not too in depth into it, but later muslims did and for good reason. We do not throw away the development of the Islam, just to have the stance of the Salafi.

So to rap up my point, the point of contention is not that muslims disagree that the Salaf's as Salihiin are our heritage and basis of our Deen. But that the later development of and elaboration of the Deen. Those who have some disagreements with the present Salafi movement is some of their rejection of the development of Islam long after the salaf as salihiin.

On the first point where You mentioned that Muslims today all agree following the Salaf As Salihuun is the basis of the deen, then that is not the case. Many Muslims don't beleive You have to, and instead will follow wherever the wind takes them whether it is following 'saints (awliyo), or different personaliteis at the expense of following the way of the Salaf. As for the stance of Ilmul Kalaam and the sheikh statements, yes it is true We are not allowed to argue or debate about the Religion. Discussion is fine, but argumentation is not allowed. The benefits for this are many and Imam Barbahaari in His explanation of Sharh Sunnah explains them. One of the the evils that come out of argumentation is the people who watch, get doubt and shakki in their hearts.



As for the latter portion Where Your referred to the 'Development of Islam' ofcourse with Da'wa Salafiyyah Islam is wanted to be advanced, but not through newly invented matters. The Prophet SAW stood on the minbar every jum'ah and said 'wa iyaakum al muhdathaadul umuur...fa inna muhdathatin bid'ah..wa kula bid'atin daalah..wa kulla dalaalatin fi naar' (And beware of the newly invented matters....for every newly invented matter is an innovation...and every innovation is a misguidance..and every misguidance is in the hellfire"....In the 40 Hadith, it is narrarated "Man Camila Camalan Fee amrina haada ma leysa minhu fa huwa rad" and in another narraration man ahdatha fee amrina hadaa ma leysa minhu fa huwa rad"...Who ever says or acts in this affair (Islam) what is not part of it, it will be rejected"...The prophet SAW admonished and warned the people who said they would always fast, not get married etc. by saying 'man raghiba can sunnati fa leysa minni wa lastu minhu"..Who ever goes against My sunnah I am not of him and he is not of me. Worship, creed, methodology must all be according to the sunnah of one indeed follows the way of the Salaf. As for as innovation in Dunya whether it is Science, Technology, Math it is not only allowed but encouraged. The idea of "Islam in this day and age" "Modern Islam" "Evolution of Islam" are all code names for innovation/bid'ah.

[SultanOrder]

Murax, I made a general statement of muslims following the salafs because the majority of muslims do. As for those who follow "saints" they are wrong in so much as they are following someone who really isn't a saint. A saint by definition is someone who adheres to the Shariah rigorously, and therefore if someone is following a saint who doesn't, then that person is not a saint. Unless we have different understanding of who is an awliya.
As for Ad Daarqutnee's view of Ilm al Kalaam, I'm not talking about arguing about it, but his view that "No person should ever enter into 'ilmul-kalaam... Rather He should be Salafee". What I was trying to say was that holding the view of salaf as salihiin where they did not discuss in detail, stopped becoming such a prudent position for the later ulema and to safeguard what they felt was the correct believes of the Ahlul Sunnah wal jama the main body of muslims, from heretical or extreme views were forced to elaborate it. Thus, the two main bodies of Islamic Creed formed those of Ashari and Maturudi. Are these two schools now wrong? I don't believe so. Are they in contrary to the views of the Salaf as Salihiin? I don't believe so. It's just that the heirs of the Salaf as Salihiin were encountered with new problems in the deen, and forced to elaborate points of theology. Thus, bringing about formal schools of Theology.

As for Innovation (bidca), it is not a categorical and complete negation, but those that have no basis in the foundations of the religion. Scholars have divided them into categories using hadiths and sunnah of the rasul scw to back up their arguments.

Now, if you think the formalization of dialectical theology (ilm al Kalaam) which is an innovated matter is to be rejected because the Salaf as Salihiin did not have it. Then that is the heart of our disagreement. And that is what I mean by saying we differ not on the Salaf but what proceeded them.

[Rightwing]

in arabic word SALAFI or salaf actually means ancestors forefather? this word has nothing magical or holy about it.. Arabs in Arabia they always fellowed their Arab ancestors ot forfathers! thats why its called in arabi salafi.. non arabic people has being lied because Salafi followers translate this word as Sahaba of prophets people who saw the prophet or the generetion after them. but thats big lie. been abuur. all salafi books has nothing to do whit first generation of the time of prophet sc and 2 generetion after them.. salafis the man they often follow or their mini prophet is called IBN THAYMIYAH and he was living 13th century or about 700 years go. hewas born when islam was more than 600 years old...

I was 100% sure you will come to drop yr two cents!


Ramadaan Kariim

[Alchemist]

JazakuAllah khair Shayk Murax

[Samatr]

There will always be a new term to divide people, wahabi, salafi, modern, orthodox, liberal/conservative, hard liners etc.
the days of being just Muslim are over.