So women

[SultanOrder]

What is with the obsession with your privates? I think it is the single most obsessed about body part in the history of mankind. Either trying to regulate it, close it, tighten it, ravage it, slice it, and whatever else to it.

Anyway, I was watching this show and it had this startling tid bit. The whole foot binding that the Chinese use to practice, where they would bend the toes, and break bones, and shape the foot into a little doll had a certain purpose. It would cause the woman to walk in a certain way (when ever she could over come the pain) that would strenghthen her vaginal muscles, so it would be "tighter". Now I get why they would say, "chinese men find it very beautiful" and a prerequisite for finding a husband etc. Still tho WTF???








And it is woman carrying out these procedures on young woman, and pushing it to the next generation. Y'all are a gender that f'n hate eachother!

[SavySallySupersedes]

I blame men. We wouldn't have any of these issues if they didn't exist. On the other hand, I couldn't live without the warmth, presence and good loving from a man.




I mean a lot has to do with how we're socialized as women. As soon as I recognized my own power and that I wasn't going to just allow life to happen, I tried harder to forge female relationships. All of my friends are girls. We never have fights. We don't sabotage each other. We're just two adults reveling in just how much we don't know. We want to learn. We want to succeed. Just surround yourself with good, well-adjusted people who are propelling forward in life.

[SultanOrder]

I don't know how much men are to be blamed. But one thing for sure is that because of Patriarchical society, they have been forced to compete to attract the good bread winners. This is because in most societies they have had dependent roles. With any shortage of goods, competition is steep. So, in this constant struggle, the mother or grandmother, trying to ensure her offspring is at the very least not one step behind sally next door, kept on pushing more and more drastic measures to attract males. These slowly evolved into the vast array of physical hardships womankind have gone through. And since they can't compete in gaining resources, their struggle has turned inwards into their bodies. The second woman start to be dependent-less, the easier it should be?

[SecretAgent]

Da reason is cus da most pleasure da most best feelin in dis world is not food,cars,money,honey,sugar,big house,iphones but its bustin in da feelin u have wen bustin in inside da goldmine ders noting u can compare it I mean nothing not da best honey,or best car or billions of cash jus da moment ur busting inside has more value then anything in dis world pretty much dis da obsession of da greatest thing in da world da "vigina" current am readin a book called vigina by ms.fox its a must read book I tell u!

[Lillaahiya]

I don't know how much men are to be blamed.

Men create and introduce a custom. Women are told that this custom is beneficial and they learn to accept and practice it. Both men and women internalize the practice and it becomes a tradition within said culture. Decades/centuries pass until it's largely renounced, although there will always be segments of the population who find 'wisdom' in the tradition and keep it alive.

[SultanOrder]

I don't know how much men are to be blamed.

Men create and introduce a custom. Women are told that this custom is beneficial and they learn to accept and practice it. Both men and women internalize the practice and it becomes a tradition within said culture. Decades/centuries pass until it's largely renounced, although there will always be segments of the population who find 'wisdom' in the tradition and keep it alive.

Give example

[ms.naliaa]

Both men and women are to be blamed. Both genders let it go on.

[Lillaahiya]

Give example

FGM

[SultanOrder]

How did men create and introduce this custom? Yes, at this point it is a cultural thing that has a lot of cultural baggage, but something as old as FGC no one knows the origins of it, we can only guess as for the reasons why.

[Lillaahiya]

Somalis adopted the practice from ancient Egyptians, and since we're a pretty patriarchal society, I highly doubt Somali women centuries back yielded enough social status and power to create and introduce a custom. We're talking about women who were shunned for drinking tea during times of inflation.

[SultanOrder]

I don't want to get bogged down in a debate over FGC, since it is only a point to illustrate a larger notion. But you have to admit there is a lot of assumptions, and a lack of hard facts. Yes, we know the ancient egyptians practiced it a long time ago. That illustrates that it is a very old tradition, and since they had some kind of written history (pictographs), we know some of their practices. We also know that it was a practice of the elite or privileged class that practiced it. But how it was introduced to our people, your guess is as good as mine. Yet, why it was introduced, how, when, is unknown and probably will always be. For that reason, I am hesitant to accept it as a strong case for your argument that men create and introduce customs especially relating to females.

[Lillaahiya]

Al theories have assumptions though. From what I deduced, it's an undisputed fact that those who hold power shape society aka create/change culture. Since we're a patriarchal society, those who hold such power are men. I don't think it's a stretch to assume men probably were the one's who introduced the custom, especially considering the practice disproportionately benefits the former than women.

[SultanOrder]

I was saying your theory had a lot of assumptions lol

Again, just because one segment of society has the most authority doesn't mean there isn't input from the minority or a sharing of decisions, and that they dominant every realm and facet of the lives of both genders. For example, child bearing and child birth. That was the complete realm of women, and men didn't have input in the process. When a woman was in labor it was women who would birth her from labor to cleaning the baby. What women did to prepare for it, the foods eaten, the remedies for morning sickness, where they would give birth, who would be around during the birth, all of that the men were alienated from it. Just like circumcision for girls, the fathers have almost zero output, and it is the women who take on when and where it is done.
As for any benefits, I'm sure that a lot of women can name you benefits whether it is based on truth or not. But one theory I read on this forum was that it protected girls from being easily raped, especially young girls attending animals. Though I'm assuming it must be against an unarmed assailant who didn't premeditate on it.
But going to the benefits, women cannot be characterized unchaste if they have a physical proof that there wasn't any intercourse. So in that way, it helps maintain their standing in that particular culture.
So, in the end, I think that we have discovered that it really isn't so black and white, and that just because men hold the reigns in society, it doesn't mean that they are the only ones. Societies are complicated and have a mix of influences.

[Lillaahiya]

Good example And yes, FGM was favoured because we're a nomadic society, and girls/women would spend countless hours unsupervised herding livestock. That's probably the only "practical"reason supporting female circumcision, although there have been women who have been raped who were circumcised. Another reason why xalaalays was/is popular is because the procedure is thought to curb sexual desire and prevent promiscuity. A woman's 'standing' in society is directly tied to how marriageable she is, which is synonymous with virginity in our culture. Who sets the standards of marriageability for women? ...

Again, I don't think it's a stretch saying it was probably men who introduced this custom, along with many others, to Somali women.

[SultanOrder]

A young woman's 'standing' in society is tied to how marriageable she is, no doubt. Marriage is the institution in which societies seek stability and growth. Trying to have children and life-long parnters of the opposite sex is something that is threatening to men and women. But, it is the most threatening to women, in my opinion. Why? Because women are the ones that for the most part in society been regulated to dependents, and as primary caretakers of children, they are the ones who are burdened with them, especially if it is out of wedlock. What does marriage offer men? It offers a guarantee that any children born are theres, and not someone else's, this is important because a lot of resources goes into children. But on the whole, men are not as dependent for their livlihood and security as women.

We have established who benefits most from marriage. Now, looking at women, who is their biggest competition to this resource that is men? Other women. Yes promiscuity is a trait that is disliked by men and women. But who gets an advantage when they are not promiscious? It is women. A man is not judged by men or women as harshly. So is it no surprise that women socially outcast promiscious women, they continue practices to the next generation of girls that highlight or guarantee a girls chastity. So it benefits women, they continue it, and some how they are not the ones that create these customs? Have you seen a mother-in-law judging a potential daughter-in-law?