Somalia has no future as a state.

[The`Republic]

It is a failed project. By that I even include Somaliland where shit will become a microcosm of Somalia when they finally get independence. ..and hence the ONLY true thing keep Isaaq united.

Somalia is a tribe with tribes (Darod, Hawiye, Isaaq, etc)

Those tribes are tribes with tribes (Marehan Majerten, Abgal, Habar Gidir, Sacad Muuse, Ciidagale)

Those tribes are tribes with tribes (Rer Dini, Rer Hassan, Cali Saleebaan, Ciise Maxmuud, Wacbuudhan, rer Jalaf, Jibril Abokor, Suldan Guuleed, etc).

Those tribes are tribes with tribes


The entire social basis of Somali statehood founded in Somali culture is anarchic and schizophrenic.

There is NO bottom. No end. It is like a water bottle with a hole in the bottom.

What y put in, drains out.

When I see the vitriol with which majority of Darod absolutely HATE Hassan Sheikh (I mean I personally don't think deserves the level of criticism and hate shown towards him). When I see how Hawiye absolutely HATE Abdullahi Yusuf. How Darods (when he was there) hated Sheikh Sharif and deridedas a lucky buffoon. How Abdiqasim was hated by eveveryone. How Siad Barre was hated by Hawiye and Isaaq. How many are so neutral towards the early 60's because it is such a long political long time ago and don't hate or love them enough to care but only remember those aspects which appealed to them as clan.

When I look accurately and know 100% that Mogadishu will go back to 1994 the second Uganda leaves.

When I know foreign troops are the only thing sustaining thr false sense of Somalia coming back.

When I know that Somalia's national forces will divide into tribe the second any of their tribes feel aggrieved.

When I see that Federalism will further antagonize Somali clan relations although without a doubt it is the only thing that could on the surface bring major clans to tbe table.

I have absolutely zero hope in the future viability, workability, sustainability, and existence of a future Somali state.

We are a patchwork of warring clans...too fragmented to ever have a dominant one or two groups of control and to anarchic and schizophrenic by culture to ever give true loyalty to any rule.

Wallahi I felt it for a long time but Somalia has no future as a state. Only Museveni's mercenaries keeps the farce from really being realized.

[Estarix]

You are right that eventually somaliland and puntland will break down in sub tribal bases, thats how clans work their members truly only have true loyalty down to their sub sub sub clans. Which is why federalism wont work as it will keep clan active on a state and national level; i would propose a slow elimination by building a central government which keeps all clans happy but also puts much money on education. Once the people become more educated they will experience a cultural revolution that other countries such as japan whom in the past had functioned at a tribal bases.

[HusseinHassan]

[LeJusticier]

Kii yaraa ee Votage caawa furtuu tuuray!!

Waryaa voltage do not compare WalaweynLand to Somaliland eventhou we Somalilander are full of shit in our own special way.


Le justicier

[AbkoowDhiblaawe]

You are right that eventually somaliland and puntland will break down in sub tribal bases, thats how clans work their members truly only have true loyalty down to their sub sub sub clans. Which is why federalism wont work as it will keep clan active on a state and national level; i would propose a slow elimination by building a central government which keeps all clans happy but also puts much money on education. Once the people become more educated they will experience a cultural revolution that other countries such as japan whom in the past had functioned at a tribal bases.

I would like to add one extremely important point, we need a real national dialogue and reconcilliation between the clans and the people so we can move forward.

[Estarix]

Somalis were an anarchic people and worse yet they went through an unnatural development where colonists joined regions which had no historical connections together. But despite this what somalis can claim which is rare in africa is that they are a nation. They share culture, language, ethnicity, religion - even the minorities have embraced somali culture to a certain degree and all this is rare in africa.
This somali ethonym is only serves as a larger nation that envelops the sub nations. The sub nations are the real nations such as clans isaaq, darood, hawiye; and even they break up more importantly into smaller sub nations which have more loyalty from their members. It's like the yugoslavia, you cant compare it to a country like germany and france because they believe and have loyalty towards the concept of a state and country? At the moment the fg are being guided by united nations to serve somali nation but they have more loyalty to the sub nations and it is they whom they will return when things get bad.
I genuinely believe only groups like alshabab can save somalis but the world wont allow it. I think a different but very risky trajectory will have to be taken.

[hydrogen]

"I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, then my cousins and I against strangers"

[Ismail87]

How many more anti-gov threads? Soomaali waligood calaacal bay ku jirayaan bal maxa u diiday inay dalkooda iyo hogamiyeyashooda u duceeyaan intay nacnacda iska yareeyaan

[Bermooda]

You are right that eventually somaliland and puntland will break down in sub tribal bases, thats how clans work their members truly only have true loyalty down to their sub sub sub clans. Which is why federalism wont work as it will keep clan active on a state and national level; i would propose a slow elimination by building a central government which keeps all clans happy but also puts much money on education. Once the people become more educated they will experience a cultural revolution that other countries such as japan whom in the past had functioned at a tribal bases.

I would like to add one extremely important point, we need a real national dialogue and reconciliation between the clans and the people so we can move forward.

I have said this before our enemies will never let that happen in they will counter it with all their power. That doesn't mean it's impossible. What we need first is to organize a stage by stage diaspora reconciliation. When that is completed and we're speaking with once voice then we can turn to which will be much easier cos if you haven't realized the diaspora is politically economically

[SimplySerene]

It is a failed project. By that I even include Somaliland

You are right that eventually somaliland and puntland will break down in sub tribal bases, thats how clans work their members truly only have true loyalty down to their sub sub sub clans.

I don’t understand why Voltage and Estarix are so sure that Somaliland will fail or break down. Neither of them can foresee the future.

My line of thinking is as long there is quality expansion in education and development in government people will be less dependent on tribe. I thought many societies which started with a tribal structure became less anarchic and tribal because of education & good governance. So I see hope as long as Somaliland builds on that and of course Somaliland has a lot to build on.

I don’t understand the purpose of this thread. I can understand the frustration with Somalia, but I don’t see how spreading hopeless on to others is helpful.

It would be nicer if there were more threads that were aspiring people, and discussing solutions.


Just my two cents

[Arabman]

I wonder if Somalia would have had future if Farmaajo was elected as prime minister.

[AbdiJohnson]

The Republic,

I dont have hope for the older generation but I assure you things will be better with this generation. The kids back home don't engage in qabyalaad. They don't care about it. They also have access to the internet so they are more open minded. The younger guys and the older guys are of a different species

I am,

Abdi "You'll see a noticeable result 25 years from now" Johnson

[skywalker25]

I agree to two many points you raised but equate Somalilands tribal structure with that of southern somalia is typical of you. Your line of thinking has always been when the shit reaches your nostrils and you can't avoid the truth through some at somaliland swell.

Recognition is not the backbone which holds together the Somaliland tribal structure. It might be a small factor but with it or without the situation would never reach the chaos of Somalia. This is due the attitude of the youth towards their elders and the sought of respect and power the elders hold within that group.
Isaaq/northerners understand that the individual most be second to the tol. Bringing shame to the tol is paramount to going to hell.
This is what holds Isaaq together and will hold them forever. It united us before Somaliland or the chase of recognition.

[BlackRain]

I agree entirely. Absolutely big fat zero chance of Somalia ever becoming a state. The neighboring countries don't want, the International community don't either & worst of all we are our worst enemy.

A simple example : Each Amisom soldier gets paid 1200/ month and all they do is transport VIP government officials from Airport to their final destination & guard the Airport and Presidential place. Compare this to the Somali soldiers who get paid a meager 200/month. ONE Amisom gets paid the same amount of 6 Somali soldier and their f-king country!

Somalia is big project and the shot callers want it this way and we can't do nothing about it.

[Rabshoole]

Soomaali waligood calaacal bay ku jirayaan bal maxa u diiday inay dalkooda iyo hogamiyeyashooda u duceeyaan intay nacnacda iska yareeyaan

First time, I've seen this kashmir talking sense.