Somaliland in world politics? Gurey & co come in

[Octavius]

So assuming that Somaliland is or is not recognised, what role do you see Somaliland play in international politics?

What economic, military or political significance does or will Somaliland have in the world? What has Somaliland got to offer to the world?

What are Somaliland's interests in the world? And how will Somaliland defend those interests?

How can/will Somaliland assure its energy/food/water/military security?

[Octavius]

Population ~3.5m
Land area: 137,600 km2
GDP: ~$1.4bn
GDP per capita: $347

Cities: Hargeysa (pop. unknown)

[SecretAgent]

Somaliland is dependent on ethiopa but ethiopa supports puntland and TFG if somaliland has a good post silanyo transitional govt AU might recognized it

[Octavius]

Recognition is not the topic of this thread. Nor will recognition make Somaliland any more politically or economically relevant in the world.

[Xildiiid]

One step at a time. You must learn to walk before you can run.


I'm currently writing a manifesto on Somaliland, it's political corruption, ineffectiveness in resource utilization and future prospects.

[gurey25]

Somaliland is rubbish, extreme corruption and utter incompetence and full of so many wasted potential.
This sums up somaliland, but when compared to somalia it shines so bright which is a judgment on somalia.

World politics??
Somaliland has the highest percentage of arabic speakers in former somalia, there where over 200,000 that lived in the Gulf countries before 2000,
2/3's have immigrated to the west but the rest have moved back to somaliland, but i doubt that realtions with arab countries will be more important than african countries.
I sincerly hope that we never join the arab league , being in the same organization with this prime example of incompetence and utter stupidity will look badly on us in the future.
The arab world will be setting new record lows in every field in the future and we should be smart as rats and be quick to exit such sinking ships.

Sadly a recognized independent Somaliland will be a glorified Djibouti, oil and mineral income will provide a slightly higher per capita income than kenya but will be squandered by the government and the business cliques.
The rest of the population is destined for squalor and misery and people will turn to religon unfortunately to the wrong religion,(salafism).
I expect somaliland to be a much poorer but equally depraved version of saudi arabia in the future with all the social and cultural diseases it entails.

as for millitary we will have advanced weapons fighter planes and tanks most likely chinese and even a navy but we will have a millitary less effective than our current batch of illiterate millitiamen in technicals.

This doomsday scenario is why i am still a somaliweynist despite being a somaliland nationalist,
its because we need a vison for the future and we need a struggle to bind us and move us towards greatness.

Sadly for the majority of somalis, they see somaliweyn as simply their clan on top and everyone beneath them, all the while when they speak about brotherhood and somalinimo.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Gurey that is my nightmare. I may be suffering from delusions of grandeur but I always thought Somalis could be the dominant power in Africa and the world. We have everything except the people. Location, resources, neighbours like Ethiopia, Yemen and Kenya ready to implode etc. Unfortunately, we do not have the only resource that ultimately matters, people. I have never seen a more petty, small-minded and unambitious people in my life. It must be a cultural relic of being incurious nomads who did fck all except watch herds graze while the rest of the world were leaping in bounds culturally, artistically and technologically.

[gurey25]

Its camel fever the unnatural love of camels.
The camel does have its advantages, it ensure the freedom of the nomad and keeps him away from disgusting effeminate "civilization".
The camel also used to ensure military superiority to the nomad, lets say the oromo have another population explosion and send a force 5 times your size, they are also highly experienced .. no problem retreat into the desert and wear them down in a series of ambushes till they either withdraw or
fall for a massive ambush. then you follow them home hitting and running like a pack of wolves.
If you have a drought, no problem just invade your neighbours lands and steal his camels and maybe his women too?
If you live close to settled population, you raid them too.

Life was simple back then and the camel f-king life guaranteed freedom and superiority to the nomad for thousands of years.

but things change, those poor peasants now have a country, a state, advanced weapons, armoured fighting vehicles that negate your cavalry.
If you dont adapt you will be enslaved,.

we are now ensalved a direct result of the refusal to adapt and cure our camel fever.

now camel fever is a bitch to cure, its ingrained deeply in our psyche even if we have never seen a camel.
Its the reason why all somalis have a superiority complex.
For example i know i am not superior the logical part of my mind tells me this, but the deeper part of my brain knows that i am superior to all and everyone because i am somali!!

see its madness, add qabiil into the mix and you have the recipe for mayhem.

[SecretAgent]

Uk ethiopa are afraid of post silanyo conflict in hargeisa no investments till peaceful tranfer of power

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Its camel fever the unnatural love of camels.
The camel does have its advantages, it ensure the freedom of the nomad and keeps him away from disgusting effeminate "civilization".
The camel also used to ensure military superiority to the nomad, lets say the oromo have another population explosion and send a force 5 times your size, they are also highly experienced .. no problem retreat into the desert and wear them down in a series of ambushes till they either withdraw or
fall for a massive ambush. then you follow them home hitting and running like a pack of wolves.
If you have a drought, no problem just invade your neighbours lands and steal his camels and maybe his women too?
If you live close to settled population, you raid them too.

Life was simple back then and the camel f-king life guaranteed freedom and superiority to the nomad for thousands of years.

but things change, those poor peasants now have a country, a state, advanced weapons, armoured fighting vehicles that negate your cavalry.
If you dont adapt you will be enslaved,.

we are now ensalved a direct result of the refusal to adapt and cure our camel fever.

now camel fever is a bitch to cure, its ingrained deeply in our psyche even if we have never seen a camel.
Its the reason why all somalis have a superiority complex.
For example i know i am not superior the logical part of my mind tells me this, but the deeper part of my brain knows that i am superior to all and everyone because i am somali!!

see its madness, add qabiil into the mix and you have the recipe for mayhem.

I must be a hybrid then. I am pretty much an extension of the effeminate civilisation down to my powdered face and perfumed clothes. With one exception, I still have that part of my brain telling me I'm superior to the people whose country a reside in. A sweet irony. But on a serious note, unless we change this backward and unambitious mentality, somalis will not survive.

[Octavius]

I don't think that Somalis necessarily are or will be irrelevant in world politics and economics. We certainly have an immensely arduous task before us if we truly want to be relevant and important in the world, but I do not think that accomplishing this task is impossible, though It will take a lot of work.

Somalis will certainly not be relevant in world politics and economic because of economic size, military size/capability or land area. But with hard work, perseverance, good strategy, strategic partnerships and positioning, we can be relevant through leveraging qualitative aspects which they can develop and later turn into quantitative advantages.

I have a different vision of and for our people and our country. I see a country that invests heavily in education and research and the practical application of that education and research in industry, governance and social policy. I see a country that is resilient and that can absorb external shocks. I see a country that invests in its ability to be and remain independent and sovereign, through food/energy/water/medicine security and the ability to produce and manufacture key products domestically. I see a country that invests in its ability to trade with other nations and through other nations and thereby increases its relevance in the world; in particular I am thinking of owning assets/companies in other African countries, importing and processing materials that we cannot source domestically, expanding our large companies to be active in non-domestic markets.

And even militarily we need not be a small player, at least regionally. With a strong economy, it would currently be just about feasible to maintain a military of about 100,000 personnel (max). Though in the long term we need to take the Djiboutian route of hosting American/Chinese bases. We need to invest heavily in our intelligence capabilities and we need to maintain a proactive rather than reactive in our foreign policy & international relations. In particular we need specialist units/squads who are able to deal with issues or problems as they develop, but before they reach crisis levels. We need to create mutual interdependency with powerful nations or nations who are friendly with powerful nations, through having shared interests that need to be protected (and there are many ways to do this).

To achieve all of the above and more I will be moving back to the homeland, soon Inshal.

[Xildiiid]

Eventually we all have to move to Somaliland in order to make things happen.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I don't think that Somalis necessarily are or will be irrelevant in world politics and economics. We certainly have an immensely arduous task before us if we truly want to be relevant and important in the world, but I do not think that accomplishing this task is impossible, though It will take a lot of work.

Somalis will certainly not be relevant in world politics and economic because of economic size, military size/capability or land area. But with hard work, perseverance, good strategy, strategic partnerships and positioning, we can be relevant through leveraging qualitative aspects which they can develop and later turn into quantitative advantages.

I have a different vision of and for our people and our country. I see a country that invests heavily in education and research and the practical application of that education and research in industry, governance and social policy. I see a country that is resilient and that can absorb external shocks. I see a country that invests in its ability to be and remain independent and sovereign, through food/energy/water/medicine security and the ability to produce and manufacture key products domestically. I see a country that invests in its ability to trade with other nations and through other nations and thereby increases its relevance in the world; in particular I am thinking of owning assets/companies in other African countries, importing and processing materials that we cannot source domestically, expanding our large companies to be active in non-domestic markets.

And even militarily we need not be a small player, at least regionally. With a strong economy, it would currently be just about feasible to maintain a military of about 100,000 personnel (max). Though in the long term we need to take the Djiboutian route of hosting American/Chinese bases. We need to invest heavily in our intelligence capabilities and we need to maintain a proactive rather than reactive in our foreign policy & international relations. In particular we need specialist units/squads who are able to deal with issues or problems as they develop, but before they reach crisis levels. We need to create mutual interdependency with powerful nations or nations who are friendly with powerful nations, through having shared interests that need to be protected (and there are many ways to do this).

To achieve all of the above and more I will be moving back to the homeland, soon Inshal.

Word for word I agree with what you said. Except the hosting foreign troops bit. No country should willingly accept foreign troops and bases inside their country. Politics is not static and there will come a time when you might be at war with the country whose troops you're hosting. I also think we should tap the african market as much as possible by selling cheap manufactured goods in exchange for their huge mineral wealth. Africa should be our sphere of influence and should be jealously guarded.

[Octavius]

I agree with your sentiment. I too am not very fond of the idea of foreign troops, but it may be a necessity. Having said that we could take a different approach as far as our security is concerned. We could focus on creating a capable, high tech defence apparatus, which is probably the route that we should go down.

But I am concerned by the lack of a sense of urgency among our people. We need development now. We need good leaders and politicians now. We need food/energy/water/security/healthcare/education/jobs now. Not in 10 years time. Not after another election. Not after S/L is recognised (which may well be never). But now. And I just don't see that happening because there is no sense or urgency at all. For goodness sake Somaliland has existed for 30 years and it still does not have pavements, let along paved roads, power stations, sewage systems or effective healthcare/education etc. What is the point of Somaliland existing if it does not fulfil the needs of its citizens?

Just off the top of my head, there are some practical steps that we can take.

1. We need good leaders back home, with the passion, determination and vision necessary to take out country/people to new heights. We need the educated diaspora to return, but not so that they can chew qat or sleep day and night but so that they can lead the country to catch up with the rest of the world.

2. We need to hold our politicians account by creating a system that requires them to plan, to implement development projects and that holds them account to the election pledges that they make.

3. We need to reform our legal and judicial sectors and we need a lot of new laws, which also need to be accessible and clearly communicated to clarify and establish the rights and responsibilities of the general public/politicians/government employees/investors/owners/employees/government in relation to each other.

4. We need to establish a functioning financial system so that individuals and organisations can deposit funds, borrow and invest excess capital.

5. We need to reform our education system by routing out all the fake universities that are extorting money from students without providing them with high quality education that is commensurate to the money that they have paid. We need to invest in research that adopts a problem-solving approach to find practical solutions to the social/economic/environmental/political issues that we face. We need to establish various professional institutes so that we can regulate, manage and effectively utilise the skills and knowledge within our country; in particular we need doctors, teachers, engineers, nurses/midwifes, surveyors, accountants, lawyers, academics, scientists etc.

6. We need to restructure and reform all our public sector institutions to ensure that they are effective, transparent and that they are fulfilling the job for which they were established.

7. We need to take action to diversify our economy by putting the diaspora's funds into productive use, rather than consumptive use. We need to control the expenditure on imports and in particular qat, agricultural produce and consumer goods which are haemorrhaging cash out of the country/economy; one way we can do this is by investing in our ability to produce these goods domestically. We need to support out private sector and entrepreneurs so that they can do what they do best and so that they can expand into other African countries.

8. We need to improve our ability to pay taxes, collect taxes and put taxes to effective and transparent use.

9. We need to invest in infrastructure, energy production, roads, ports, airports, airports, communications technology etc.

There is no strategy, no vision, no plan and no prioritising. We are talking about a place that has almost no industry to speak of, that produces no goods of its own and that exports very little, that has no formal economy or jobs to speak of, that has no tax base. We need to invest in projects and initiatives that will result in currency inflows, job creation, taxation income and other forms of return on investment, in perpetuity, which xould then be utilised to invest in either in infrastructure projects or more revenue-generaring investments. Government can't invest in infrastructure if it has no way of generating revenue because there is no tax base, because there are no formal jobs, because there is very little in the way of formal economic activity. Solution? invest in revenue generating job creating projects.

Large amounts of money that are required for development projects can easily be raised from the diaspora/locals. The best way to spend that money, if it is raised, is by investing it in projects that (a) create sustainable jobs and (b) provide a sustained return on investment in perpetuity, the proceeds from which can then be reinvested. Resources are scarce and projects have to be prioritised to projects that create sustainable jobs, improve people's quality of life and provide a high return on investment, in perpetuity.

- Invest $25m in a fishing fleet transportation; storage, freezing, processing and transportation facilities. Create jobs. Earn hard currency though exporting the catch. The government can tax the operations of the entity. Revenues can be re-investing in either enlarging the operations of the entity, improving the technologies and operational methods, branding & marketing, entering new markets or in new industries altogether.

- Invest $35m in mechanised abattoirs & tannaries on the outskirts of the major cities, storage, freezing, processing and transportation facilities. Create jobs. Earn hard currency though exporting the products. The government can tax the operations of the entity. Revenues can be re-investing in either enlarging the operations of the entity, improving the technologies and operational methods, branding & marketing, entering new markets or in new industries altogether.

- Invest in $25m in farming in fetile parts of Awdal/Waqooyi galbeed/the South, significantly increase the land under cultivation, drill wells to irrigate those farms, get the universities & professionals with the requisite technical knowledge to improve agricultural methods; bring in drip irrigation, bring in fertilizers and encourage import substitution of whatever produce can be produced domestically. Improve food security, reduce food prices, improve peoples quality of lives, create jobs. Earn hard currency though exporting the products. The government can tax the operations of the entity. Revenues can be re-investing in either enlarging the operations of the entity, improving the technologies and operational methods, branding & marketing, entering new markets or in new industries altogether

.- Nationalise all universities (ban all non-government owned universities) and create a government funded independentuniveristy. Invest $50m in a proper university/research institute that has a modern campuses, is fully equipped and that employs the most qualified, experienced and talented members of the Somali diaspora. The university should have faculties for applied sciences/technology/engineering/medical sciences&technologies, medicine/nursing/midwifery, economics/business/sociology, religious studies/Somali history/Somali literature. This university/research institute should: provide excellent teaching, free of charge, to all qualified students. This university should also conduct cutting-edge problem-solving based research to address the technological/economic/social/health issues within the country and come up with practical solutions and authoritative recommendations. The university should have close links with and directly work with companies/industry/schools/hospitals/government departments.

- Invest $50m in light manufacturing of imported consumer goods that can be produced or assembled within the county even if we have to import the required raw materials e.g. shoes, clothes, furniture, construction materials, foodstuffs (flour, edible oils etc.)

- Invest $115m in a small power plant, dramatically bring down the price of electricity and encourage light manufacturing. Build power lines to the major cities, with the support of donors/friendly nations.

[Octavius]

Eventually we all have to move to Somaliland in order to make things happen.