Death penalty for Apostasy?

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Do you guys believe it is logical that apostate must be killed for leaving islam?

[technogc]

Another bait thread for the cia to watch. You have been found out ahlul baatil rafid.

[inaXasan]

No it is a law that belongs to the dark ages

[barbarossa]

All I know is, if this form of punishment were to be applied here, the forum would start to depopulate on unprecedented rate.

[FAH1223]

First off, in Islam things are established by textual proofs and the consensus of the scholars and their interpretations of
those proofs. There is no instrinsic need for a logical explanation for each law, since the wisdom we see behind a law is not the reason why the law was given to us nor the reason why we should accept it and obey it.

Yes, the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam. However, this is not the duty of any/every Muslim to kill anyone they find becoming an apostate, rather the Islamic caliphate should do that.

Moreover, it is not that the person is killed right away, rather He/she is given 3 days to clear any Misconceptions developed about Islam. There's something called a process not running around chopping heads off.

After that, if it's a male, he should be executed if he doesn't repent, and for females, there's a difference of opinion, the preferred stance is that she should be kept in prison till she repents.

So, basically, anyone who apostates can lie outright and say they've returned to the faith. Get out of jail free card.

Most apostates don't have the balls to go to the faces of Muslims and openly rebel. They'll hide amongst those who hate Islam/Muslims in general.

The Qur'an obviously mentions the torment in the hereafter of those who apostate in many places.

These haduud laws part of Islam we have them for a purpose and they are an important part of our tool kit. Of course it means they need to be used responsibly which means as little as possible or no use at all. When the Muslims were at the height of intellectual, cultural, and economic development those laws were like some rare artifacts in history books.
Even reactionary tribal regimes ( by the standards of their day) like the Bani Ummaya Khalifate after Mu3awiya enforced stoning for adultery only 9 times in a hundred years for a region ranging from the borders of China to Spain.

Which still is difficult to imagine because you require 4 witnesses of sound reputation, meaning that getting caught is impossible unless you
have sex in an open field. Or in todays age it can only be applicable for engaging in pornography.

For those who leave Islam, they can outwardly be amongst the Muslims and you obviously can't see what is in their minds/hearts.

The laws are there as a deterrent even when they are impossible to enforce.

[SooMaal11]

No!!! Allah can deal with them once they die. It is inhumane to kill someone for disbelieving in a religion they don't agree with or just don't believe in anymore (regardless if it's true or not).

[Casanova25]

All I know is, if this form of punishment were to be applied here, the forum would start to depopulate on unprecedented rate.

[quark]

First off, in Islam things are established by textual proofs and the consensus of the scholars and their interpretations of
those proofs. There is no instrinsic need for a logical explanation for each law, since the wisdom we see behind a law is not the reason why the law was given to us nor the reason why we should accept it and obey it.

Yes, the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam. However, this is not the duty of any/every Muslim to kill anyone they find becoming an apostate, rather the Islamic caliphate should do that.

Moreover, it is not that the person is killed right away, rather He/she is given 3 days to clear any Misconceptions developed about Islam. There's something called a process not running around chopping heads off.

After that, if it's a male, he should be executed if he doesn't repent, and for females, there's a difference of opinion, the preferred stance is that she should be kept in prison till she repents.

So, basically, anyone who apostates can lie outright and say they've returned to the faith. Get out of jail free card.

Most apostates don't have the balls to go to the faces of Muslims and openly rebel. They'll hide amongst those who hate Islam/Muslims in general.

The Qur'an obviously mentions the torment in the hereafter of those who apostate in many places.

These haduud laws part of Islam we have them for a purpose and they are an important part of our tool kit. Of course it means they need to be used responsibly which means as little as possible or no use at all. When the Muslims were at the height of intellectual, cultural, and economic development those laws were like some rare artifacts in history books.
Even reactionary tribal regimes ( by the standards of their day) like the Bani Ummaya Khalifate after Mu3awiya enforced stoning for adultery only 9 times in a hundred years for a region ranging from the borders of China to Spain.

Which still is difficult to imagine because you require 4 witnesses of sound reputation, meaning that getting caught is impossible unless you
have sex in an open field. Or in todays age it can only be applicable for engaging in pornography.

For those who leave Islam, they can outwardly be amongst the Muslims and you obviously can't see what is in their minds/hearts.

The laws are there as a deterrent even when they are impossible to enforce.

and u still here frequent stonings for adultery in places where shabbab/isis are in control

[James Dahl]

Do you guys believe it is logical that apostate must be killed for leaving islam?

Who's definition of apostasy are we using here? Some takfiri definitions are broad enough to declare about 90% of the Islamic world to be apostates.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

First off, in Islam things are established by textual proofs and the consensus of the scholars and their interpretations of
those proofs. There is no instrinsic need for a logical explanation for each law, since the wisdom we see behind a law is not the reason why the law was given to us nor the reason why we should accept it and obey it.

Yes, the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam. However, this is not the duty of any/every Muslim to kill anyone they find becoming an apostate, rather the Islamic caliphate should do that.

Moreover, it is not that the person is killed right away, rather He/she is given 3 days to clear any Misconceptions developed about Islam. There's something called a process not running around chopping heads off.

After that, if it's a male, he should be executed if he doesn't repent, and for females, there's a difference of opinion, the preferred stance is that she should be kept in prison till she repents.

So, basically, anyone who apostates can lie outright and say they've returned to the faith. Get out of jail free card.

Most apostates don't have the balls to go to the faces of Muslims and openly rebel. They'll hide amongst those who hate Islam/Muslims in general.

The Qur'an obviously mentions the torment in the hereafter of those who apostate in many places.

These haduud laws part of Islam we have them for a purpose and they are an important part of our tool kit. Of course it means they need to be used responsibly which means as little as possible or no use at all. When the Muslims were at the height of intellectual, cultural, and economic development those laws were like some rare artifacts in history books.
Even reactionary tribal regimes ( by the standards of their day) like the Bani Ummaya Khalifate after Mu3awiya enforced stoning for adultery only 9 times in a hundred years for a region ranging from the borders of China to Spain.

Which still is difficult to imagine because you require 4 witnesses of sound reputation, meaning that getting caught is impossible unless you
have sex in an open field. Or in todays age it can only be applicable for engaging in pornography.

For those who leave Islam, they can outwardly be amongst the Muslims and you obviously can't see what is in their minds/hearts.

The laws are there as a deterrent even when they are impossible to enforce.

There is no compulsion in religion. We must protect freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is in quran. There is no death penalty for peaceful apostacy(the apostate that is not fighting muslim nation).

Allah swt says:
Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, God will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path. [4:137]

How can someone believe then disbelieve, then believe and then disbelieve if death penalty was in quran? So it means the apostate is killed, then brought to life, he accepts islam then leaves islam and escapes death penalty and increases in disbelief????

So there is no death penalty for apostacy!
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most sure hand-hold, that never breaks. And God is Hearing, Knowing. [2:256]



Somali Christian and Jewish community will be protected under my rule Insha Allah. And anyone can leave islam without waging war against the muslim state, such person who does not wage war against muslim state is free to leave islam and practise his religion in freedom.


The death penalty for apostasy is the apostate who leaves islam and fights the muslims by joining their enemies. Here is the evidence.
Abdullah narrated that Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that there is no God but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas (retaliation) for murder, a married person who commits adultery and the one who reverts from Islam (apostates) and leaves the (Muslim) community."12

A'ishah, the Prophet's wife, narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said the following:

"The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: a married person who commits adultery; he is to be stoned and a man who went out fighting against God and his Messenger; he is to be killed or crucified or exiled from the land and a man who murders another person; he is to be killed on account of it."15

This is in agreement with Allah's words:

[The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: this is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.] (Al-Ma'idah 5:33)


So those who say kill a peaceful apostate, a apostate who forms no danger for the muslim nation, they have no evidence from quran and neither from ahaadith!

There is no compulsion in islam. Another proof:

Jabir ibn `Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin pledged allegiance to the Apostle of Allah for Islam (i.e. accepted Islam) and then the Bedouin got fever whereupon he said to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) "cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. He (the Bedouin) came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. Then he (the Bedouin) left (Medina). Allah's Apostle said, "Madinah is like a pair of bellows (furnace): it expels its impurities and brightens and clear its good."11

Some argued that perhaps the man in question wanted to be relieved of his oath (bay`ah) not to leave Madinah. This argument lacks any textual or other support. In fact, the wording of this particular hadith clearly indicates that the subject of the oath (bay`ah) was to willingly accept Islam. Thus, his request to be relieved from that oath meant that he wanted to leave Islam. This incident took place in Madinah when Muslims were living in an independent Islamic "state," where the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had full authority to implement Shari`ah law.

If indeed the "revealed" prescribed punishment for apostasy is death, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would have been the first to carry out the punishment. In fact, he did not even prescribe any punishment at all against that Bedouin, nor did he send any one to arrest him as an "apostate," imprison, or ask him to recant or even reconsider his decision as later jurists prescribed. Nor is there any solid ground to claim that this and other similar hadiths were "abrogated." In fact, these Hadiths are in conformity with the Qur'an and consistent with its central value of freedom of conscious and rejection of any compulsion in matters of faith (Al-Baqarah 2:256).

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

FAH to behonest to kill a apostate or force him to stay in Islam is cruel and is anti-islam. Please read what i wrote there. U cannot force someone to stay in Islam, it goes against the words of Allah swt "no compulsion in religion".
I gave EVIDENCES from quran and sunnah to back it up.
The only apostate that can be killed by the islamic govt is apostate who wages war against Allah and his messenger by working with the kuffar(spying on the muslims) or joining their army or stirring up problems in the muslim country by insulting the religion and calling people to disbelief.
Such apostate deserves to be killed.

But iam talking about peaceful apostate who leaves islam and minds his/her own business.
There is also other story about muslim sahabi who converted to christianity in Ethiopia. Did the prophet pbuh ask the ethiopian king to hand over this apostate so he can be killed? No!

[technogc]

^^


Ever heard about the hadith that says that an apostate has 3 days to return to the religion?

The quran does NOT contradict the sunnah.

And you're allowed to give commentary on the quran now sheikh baatil?

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Kkkkkkkk

There is a rule: if hadith contradicts quran, what to do?
Clearly Quran is protected from harm by Allah swt. Can you swear by Allah that Hadith is protected from falsehood?


So if the hadith contradicts quran then throw it away.


To kill a peaceful apostate just for leaving islam means THERE IS COMPULSION IN RELIGION. And that contradicts against islamic teaching in quran and hadiths. Read the hadiths i showed u, stonehead!

[James Dahl]

Kkkkkkkk

There is a rule: if hadith contradicts quran, what to do?
Clearly Quran is protected from harm by Allah swt. Can you swear by Allah that Hadith is protected from falsehood?


So if the hadith contradicts quran then throw it away.


To kill a peaceful apostate just for leaving islam means THERE IS COMPULSION IN RELIGION. And that contradicts against islamic teaching in quran and hadiths. Read the hadiths i showed u, stonehead!

If you tossed out every Hadith that contradicted the Qu'ran you would have a few Hadith explaining how to do wudu properly and that's about it.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

James stick to drawing maps. Sxb did u made the latest political map of Somalia?

Anyways the hadith that says kill apostate contradicts quran and other hadiths. I clearly showed you the quran verses and hadiths to back up my words.
Hadiths can be falsified while Quran is 100% protected by Allah swt.

Please go back to the hadiths i mentioned in second post where it is clearly being told what kind of apostate can be executed!
The only apostate that can be killed is the one who wages war against Allah and His Messenger by fighting a govt that rules by Allah's law. This will be my belief(backed by quran and hadiths!) until the Angel blows the trumpet and the earth is fully destroyed with complete destruction!