Somalia System of Governance?

[samatar133]

presidential contenders campaign with their respective policies and promise what they will do if elected.
After a long and exhaustive campaigns one of them is elected and then the newly elected president selects a random person as his prime minister.
Immediately after the parliament approves the new prime minister, the elected president automatically becomes a powerless figurehead, a ceremonial president who has no say about how the country should be run what so ever!!

What kind of governance is this?
In the history of democracy I never heard someone who is elected who is supposed to have less powers in the government he is elected for than a person he selected?
Somalians please explain to me the logic of this system?

[LightAtNight]

The Daroods feel dis-empowered and are trying to empower the prime minister. President hassan would have achieved a lot more if he was not being constantly being undermined by a Darood pm

[samatar133]

^
I am not talking about your clans, I am talking about the system.

What made you enact such a ridiculous system in the first place?

[srsbsns]

It's the division of power which some states opt for as a constituitional form of governance to limit the risk of corruption and centralizing of power. But ofcoure it needs effective communication and compromise to be successful - which really isn't a part of Somali's DNA, which questions the credibility of this political system with regards to Somali territories. I'm sure as a theoritical framework it looked appealing to those wanting to create a modern state, while considering the past history of totalitarian despotism.

[Hodan94]

Their whole system is just messed up.
they have the pres and pm system. Which means that hasan sheikh should just be a figurehead and the PM must be the guy that controls the country however that is not the case. They should adopt the president and vice president system. These ppl have a very old out of date system.
they call themselves the jamuuriyada federal of somalia, but jamuuriyad means republic. So how in this living earth can you have a republic and federal country?

What made the governance worse is the mahiga kay and co rewritten constitution.

Its a melting point of confusion and failure.

[samatar133]

It's the division of power which some states opt for as a constituitional form of governance to limit the risk of corruption and centralizing of power. But ofcoure it needs effective communication and compromise to be successful - which really isn't a part of Somali's DNA, which questions the credibility of this political system with regards to Somali territories. I'm sure as a theoritical framework it looked appealing to those wanting to create a modern state, while considering the past history of totalitarian despotism.

I think you are not getting what I am talking!

I am not talking about the division of powers within the different branches of the state.
I am talking about the executive branch only. I am asking who should be the most powerful in this branch? the elected person or the selected person?

[srsbsns]

Well the president is the most powerful branch, simply because he anoints the PM with the confidence of the parliament. But it is the PM who proposes to pass new legislature in which the president has not only say over but a veto. It's democratic in the sense there erquires alot of checks and balances to get policy mandated.

The PM is powerful though but he is dependent on the confidence of elected parliament members; constituent representatives. This can also create instability in parliament if the president and prime minister do not see eye to eye and represent different ideologies.

It's a good system in theory and some cases of practice but it requires a great deal of cooperation and compromise. It prevents presidential monopoly in which quite recently Erdogan is symbolizing.

[Typhoon]

The system is not supposed to makes sense.
an illusion needs to be there for everybody to buy into the dysfunctional system.
The illusion is, "the power is with you, prime minister, president and Mr Speaker.

it’s when the drugs works out and the respective figures want to exercise power is when they notice the matrix and see they are merely figureheads for tribal interest, so they retreat to their tribal powerbase.

Somalia doesn`t have the concept of due process or legitimacy whos bases is the law.

Nevertheless, this great experiment will final give birth to a constitutional state and dynamic institutions.
The institutions, Clans or politicians have a intrinsic contradiction but taken together as a whole, between the politics, institution and power bases create a equilibrium

Somalia with all its faults and setbacks has been moving forward politically, economically and the psychology of the people has greatly changed in favour of state formation and compromise.

Despite periodic squabbles of the presidency and the Prime minister’s office, the state formation moves on and power has been transferred without the dissolution of the state institutions.

The reason you can`t understand the somali system is because the system is not complete so certain checks are not in place
2 institutions that will create permanent political equilibrium and institutional cohesion is the upper house of the state and judiciary system

Imagen America without, Senate and Supreme Court, well that is what you have in somalia.
Somalis despite their short coming are doing a incredible job, using traditional and innovative means to resolve institutional problems.

Nobody can deny that the chaotic politics has produced unprecedented achievements compared to pre 2006 and post 1991 era.

The genius of the somali state formation can be found in this mo zedong quote.
it’s within the environment of consensus that Somalis are building their intuitions

[Typhoon]

Their whole system is just messed up.
they have the pres and pm system. Which means that hasan sheikh should just be a figurehead and the PM must be the guy that controls the country however that is not the case. They should adopt the president and vice president system. These ppl have a very old out of date system.
they call themselves the jamuuriyada federal of somalia, but jamuuriyad means republic. So how in this living earth can you have a republic and federal country?

What made the governance worse is the mahiga kay and co rewritten constitution.

Its a melting point of confusion and failure.

[Typhoon]

It's the division of power which some states opt for as a constituitional form of governance to limit the risk of corruption and centralizing of power. But ofcoure it needs effective communication and compromise to be successful - which really isn't a part of Somali's DNA, which questions the credibility of this political system with regards to Somali territories. I'm sure as a theoritical framework it looked appealing to those wanting to create a modern state, while considering the past history of totalitarian despotism.

I think you are not getting what I am talking!

I am not talking about the division of powers within the different branches of the state.
I am talking about the executive branch only. I am asking who should be the most powerful in this branch? the elected person or the selected person?

in the somali constitution the president is ceremonial but since he is the elected he has the consent of the governed meaning he has legitimacy derived from the peoples representatives, he is along with the parliament the principle power in the state.

the prime minister is a bureaucratic position, at moment, in terms of legality, but somalia is 4.5 so somalia has 3 equal powerful branches of power

the power play between these institutions are informal but Weald considerable powers each on their own
constitutionally, the presidency and the prime minister ship are both the executive but in the informal setting they become 2 distinct operators of power in relation to parliament and to each-other

the problem is the informality and the lack of legal process. the absence of judiciary and the upper house of state keeps the situation locked, but once these institutions are active, things will be resolved and the prime minister and the president roles would be more clearer.

[Typhoon]

DP

[LightAtNight]

@samatar133
The elected president should the most powerful in the executive branch but some are not prepared to accept that and will use every trick in the book.

[Hodan94]

Their whole system is just messed up.
they have the pres and pm system. Which means that hasan sheikh should just be a figurehead and the PM must be the guy that controls the country however that is not the case. They should adopt the president and vice president system. These ppl have a very old out of date system.
they call themselves the jamuuriyada federal of somalia, but jamuuriyad means republic. So how in this living earth can you have a republic and federal country?

What made the governance worse is the mahiga kay and co rewritten constitution.

Its a melting point of confusion and failure.

Jamuriyaada means republic.

Somalia calls themselves jamuriyaada federaalka Somalia. that makes no sense don't like that on me ask your leaders why they have chosen this very odd title.
it should be feederalka Somalia or jamuriyaada Somalia.

[Estarix]

Somalia is a parliamentary democracy, which even a novice in politics has figured out by now.

"A parliamentary system is a system of democratic governance of a state in which the executive branch derives its democratic legitimacy from, and is held accountable to, the legislature (parliament); the executive and legislative branches are thus interconnected".[Wiki]

"In a parliamentary system, the head of state is normally a different person from the head of government. This is in contrast to a presidential system in a democracy, where the head of state often is also the head of government, and most importantly, the executive branch does not derive its democratic legitimacy from the legislature". [Wiki]

"Most have a clear differentiation between the head of government and the head of state; with the head of government holding real power, much like constitutional monarchies. Some have fused the roles of head of state and head of government, much like presidential systems, but with a dependency upon parliamentary power". [ Wiki]

"In contrast to a presidential republic and the semi-presidential system, the head of state usually does not have broad executive powers as an executive president would, because much of those powers have been granted to a "head of government" (usually called a prime minister). However, the head of government and head of state may form one office in a parliamentary republic (such as South Africa and Botswana), but the president is still elected in much the same way as the prime minister is in most Westminster systems. This usually means that they are the leader of the largest party or coalition of parties in parliament. In some instances, the President may legally have executive powers granted to them to undertake the day-to-day running of government (as in Finland) but by convention they do not use these powers. Some parliamentary republics could therefore be seen as following the semi-presidential system but operating under a parliamentary system".

The government holds the power, the prime minister is the head of the government. The president or the king has merely (atleast it should be) a ceremonial rule.

[Typhoon]

Hodan94
you don`t make sense to me walaal, you sound like a uneducated red neck (no offence)


qabyalada iska daa walaal gabar ba tahay, orod ilmahaga korso ama hadi lugu gabin, orod nin guurso, paltalk iyo SNET ha ku wareegin ee.