Gurey25/Xplaya nothing wrong with Oligarchs!

[caadani90]

I find you guys the most interesting and on point contributors to this forum but I think that you both have a problem in that you judge Somaliland and Somalia by Western standards and fail to see the importance of big business in politically unstable countries and regions.

You are right in the sense that a business environment where all power is vested in a few individuals or a dominant class (oligarchy) is unhealthy for a country. However in the case of a politically unstable, unrecognised, poor and undeveloped country consistenting of number of equally sized tribes who view each other with suspicion the existence of oligarchs can be an advantage for a number of reasons.

Firstly, what you have to understand whether you like it or not is that there are three forces competing for power in Somaliland; Qabiil, Government and Oligarchs. If given a choice between these forces then in an ideal world of course my choice would always be a strong government, however, like I said earlier we don't live in an ideal world. The reality here is that the problems in Somaliland and Somalia begin and end with the desease of qabyalaad, it's symptoms of grandeurs of delusion and pride; and it's outcome of conflict, destruction and stagnation.

The problem with government is that we have chosen a system of democracy which is over whelmingly reliant on this illness of qabyalaad meaning that which ever government that is elected is heavily vested in qabyalaad rendering it weak and at the whim of qabiil.

Oligarchs on the other hand are by definition a clan in their own sense and as such don't feel the need to align themselves with or to represent tribal interest. There number one interest is making money and to make money they need a stable environment in which to do so. For this reason Oligarchs above all else are the upholders of peace in Somaliland.

From the Borama conference in1993 to the 2003 election dispute all the way to the recent Muuse Bixi/Silanyo dispute it has been these same oligarchs who have been maintaining the peace and stability that Somaliland boasts about. When Egal disarmed the tribal militias it was the oligarchs that paid for it. When Silanyo came took over a country $25m dollars in debt and unable to pay wages it was the oligarchs that paid. Without the Oligarchs the power vacuum would have been filled by qabyalaad and there simply would not be a Somaliland to talk of today.

Secondly, these Oligarchs are the biggest employers in Somaliland today, they and other private businesses are responsible for an overwhelming proportion of the county's development. The positive fallout from their businesses impacts every part of Somaliland's society and it's development. For example, Telesom and Dahabshiil between them employ upwards 10,000 people in Somaliland, that equates to 10,000 families who are self reliant. Their employees, in turn, spend the salaries in the country resulting in economic growth.

Just to give you one example of when qabyalaad and the Oligarchs colide; Somaliland (known to produce one of the highest quality cements in the world) spends close to $200m dollars (hemorrhaging hard currency) on cement annually. It has a looted and delapidate cement factory requiring upwards of $25m dollars of investment to make it viable. One of our Oligarchs has put forward his intentions to invest in this project and received a contract from the government, the qabiil that inhabits the area put in a counter offer which was accepted because of the qabiils power over the government. The only problem is that they don't have the money to develop the plant and their only motive for standing in the way of the oligarch is that he was from a difffernt qabiil. When the oligarch proposed to build a brand new one away from the current site they demonstrated and burnt tyres. Today we have no cement factory the qabiil is still poor and Somaliland is paying hard currency to Ethiopia for sub-standard cement that damages our roads while being transported.

I'll say again, in an ideal world Oligarchy's are unhealthy but in the Horn of Africa it's the only difference between Somaliland's current state and state of Somalia for the past 20 years.

[ramzy2277]

very well put caadani, I couldn't agree more..

[Rambie]

Don't know bout Gurey, but that Buddhist fatsuo is deluded as fk.

[caadani90]

very well put caadani, I couldn't agree more..

[Hodan94]

They do have advantages of bailing out the country. But they think because they did that, they own the country.
thats not fair.

[Lancer]

I also agree for now it is better to have government that is run by oligarchs that come from every clan and help develop the country then a bunch of geeljires who only care about their clan and hold back progress. But this cannot go on forever someday we need to rein them in.

[lali99]

I agreed at a certain with the premise of this debate. Oligarchy is better than clan based dictatorship to develop an economy however an unregulated market is dangerous to have oligarchy running wild as it will destroy democracy. I rather have a democracy where the power of the vote means something and democracy protect all citizen instead of a thriving economy run by few rich men. In the case of dahabshil for cement factory, I don't think it is right that one company should run all cement in SL and get sole government contract. This will lead to nepotism, corruption and induced monopoly within our economy. Don't forget that it is a natural resource we're asking about here and having into the hand of just one person, is not good and not fair. Having said that, now that we know the problems, solutions needs to come out and unfortunately nothing has be done with this kulmiye administration in this regard. If it was me, I will open all sectors for all businessmen to invest in but I will strongly regulated. For example, when it comes to natural resources, I will make sure that the maximum ownership in a company that invest in this field cannot be owned by more than 33% by a single national shareholder and not more that 40% by a foreign entity (individuals and corporation)

[gurey25]

Stop making excuses for those bastards ,
Oligarchs are like herpes simplex virus you never fully get rid of it, actually a better example is HIV.
HIV can be kept undercontrol and you can live a healthy life with the right antiviral drugs and lifestyle.

Oligarchs will always be there in every society, they will come in many forms,
from communist party elite to billionaries in the US to the Ina Diigchiils and omaars and indodeeros.

What you should know is that the periods of history when you get progess socially and economically coincide with those periods when the oligarch vermin scourge had been under control.
after a cull of this infestation you have periods of rennaissance and progress.
during the period of prosperity they will slowly sneak back in, and start taking control and the cycle of decay, death and rebirth start all over again.

Do not make excuses for HIV.

[caadani90]

Stop making excuses for those bastards ,
Oligarchs are like herpes simplex virus you never fully get rid of it, actually a better example is HIV.
HIV can be kept undercontrol and you can live a healthy life with the right antiviral drugs and lifestyle.

Oligarchs will always be there in every society, they will come in many forms,
from communist party elite to billionaries in the US to the Ina Diigchiils and omaars and indodeeros.

What you should know is that the periods of history when you get progess socially and economically coincide with those periods when the oligarch vermin scourge had been under control.
after a cull of this infestation you have periods of rennaissance and progress.
during the period of prosperity they will slowly sneak back in, and start taking control and the cycle of decay, death and rebirth start all over again.

Do not make excuses for HIV.

Im not making excuses for Oligarchs, infact I'm not even sure I believe in the existence of oligarchs in Somaliland i'll explain why:

Like I said earlier in Somaliland you have three forces that are both in direct competition and constant partnership; Government, Big Business (the rich men) and Tribes. Not one of these is an Oligarchy on its own.

The term oligarch generally refers to a ruling class. They gain their power and their ability to rule over the masses through their strangle hold on country's business environment and resources. The Kulmiye government and the UDUB one before do not fit this description nor will what ever government that follows. Why? because they are powerless without the rich men and the Qabils.

Your problem is not with Oligarchs (because they don't exist in SL) or the rich men. Your problem is with the structure of Somaliland's business environment. Somaliland's business environment is underpinned by radical free market principles, these sort of market structures result in monopolies, duopolies and oligopolies in key sectors such as telecommunication (Telesom),food imports (Indhodeero,Ina Omar), banking (Dhabashiil), energy etc.

The problem with this type of system is that as the monopolies and duopolies get bigger by diversifying into other markets they leave less room for others to make money resulting in the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.

I personally think that as a weak, underdeveloped, under skilled nation it is very difficult to avoid such market structures because as a government if you cannot afford to compete to provide your citizens with quality education, healthcare and fuel then how can you regulate these markets.

in conclusion, there isn't an Oligarchy in Somaliland however we have the perfect environment in which one can develop.

[theyuusuf143]

thats interesting opinion caadani ! how ever as lali said we should not let the rich get richer. for example I think reer berbera did the right thing to prevent dahabshiil combany from investing the cement factory alone, its fair to distribute the shares to multiple companies and the government it self. the government failed 2 things

1. in ay diyaariyaan qaybtooda lacagtay ku darsan lahaayeen mashruuca.
2. iyo inay qaybiyaqn percentage ka shares ka soo hadhay oo ay ka iibiyaan ganacsato dhowr ah oo kala dabaqado ah.

labadaas midna lama yeelin. taasoo dad badan ku doodi karaan malaha in dahabshiil waxaba loo daayaa wax li,ida dhaantay !

[caadani90]

Yusuf, the problem with the cement factory is that the government doesn't have the money nor do the local tribe who claim this national resource on the basis that it is within their tribal borders otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The only people who have the money and are willing to invest are Dahabshiil and Telesom.

Again in this scenario you have government, tribe and big business. Who out of these three has the right to determine what happens to the cement producing resource in Saxiil? If you think that the answer is the tribe then your wrong on so many levels: Why? Under the constitution all national resources whether natural or strategic such as sea and air ports are managed by the government.Why shouldn't other qabiils start claiming resources within their areas! What happens if the drilling for Oil is successful in say Caynaba or Oodweyne and the locals keep all of the proceeds for themselves.

Somaliland needs to produce its own cement in order for the country to stop haemorrhaging hard currency and enriching our neighbours. Having said that I get what you and Lali are saying about this being a project that further enriches the already rich.

The government is completely at fault here, the cement should be treated in the same way as any other natural resource in the country and whether the company investing is foreign or local we should be signing profit sharing agreements. In other words, the investor has 100% ownership of the company contributes 100% of the funding required to start operating BUT shares a % of the profit with the government for the privilege of benefiting from a resources that belongs to the government (the people).