If you support selfdetermination for SL, why not Khaatumo?

[BenevolentGaraad]

Bismillahi raxmaani raxiim,

My question is as such: How do those that are pro-SL, support SL self-determination to govern themselves separate from Somalia, but at the same time, oppose the self-determination of Khaatumites to govern themselves separate from SL.

It seems like a basic question, and before asking it, I tried to make as manyobservations as possible.

One reply is that Khaatumo is a Diaspora construct along with old establishment political elite, and that it has little support from the regualar populace actually living there. If we had a popular vote referendum of Sool, Sanaag, and the Dhulbahante (DBH) parts of Togdheer, what option do you think would win:

become regions in an independent Somaliland
Become regions of an autonomous Puntland within Somalia
Become an autonomous Khaatumo within Somalia

We dont have the result of that referendum but we have some clues. DBH tribal elders had big conferences to set up SSC, and an even bigger conference to set up Khaatumo. So the traditional DBH elders have made clear where they stand. From my observations, when I hear from DBHs that have spent time in Sool, all the testimonials lead to the same conclusions:

There are DBH politicians who support SL for their own personal gain.
There are DBH militia that wear SL on their uniforms, as a means to extract resources from SL. These are the militia that hold Lascaanood.
Every other city/town has DBH militia, loyal to their subclan that remain indepedent of SL or PL.
As for the regular DBH populace (and DBH Diaspora), majority support Khaatumo, whether that be in their hearts, private conversations, public demonstrations, or financial/logistical support for Khatuumo militia.

If anyone disagrees with these points, explain which ones, and bring evidence.

I've also heard it mentioned that SL needs to maintain the integrity of the British Protectorate borders, because hope for international recognition will be lost without it. The answer to this is obvious. The international will NEVER recognize the independence of SL, and they've made that very clear. Barring a complete shakeup of global politics, SL independence chances are nonexistent. And SL's current state of limbo might become a problem in the future. We see how vicious/ruthless the international community is in Syria, Lybia, Yemen, etc.

Im not supporting open warfare. I think DBHs need to accept, live, and strive in the current situation, the de-facto state of Somaliland. But for all Waqooyi, whether they be Isaaq, Harti, Dir, or whatever, to ideologically support an autonomous Khaatumo (and autonomous SL and autonomous Awdal), and to support a change in borders and/or administration when the time comes for DBH to self-govern and achieve the self-determination that we wish for ourselves and for everyone.

Im interested in hearing opinions from pro-SL individuals knowledgeable of the current geopolitical climate, who probably know more than me. And please be respectful. I am not asking to start an argument but rather gain knowledge and insight from opposing opinions. Assalamu calaykum wa raxmatullahi wa tacaala wa barakaatu.

[HooBariiska]

because we can

[dvision01]

because we can

That is not fair the guy wrote a long passionate essay and you only replied with three words

[Bandit]

Omg who gives a fuck
Warya quit your bitching and stop embarrassing

[BenevolentGaraad]

because we can

That is not fair the guy wrote a long passionate essay and you only replied with three words

Im bored at work so I wrote this out.

Does this mean Im a paid political analyst

[BigBreak]

the territorial integrity of somaliland is just as important as the independence itself

we will not give away even one centimeter squared of our territory

[whitehartlane]

the whole khaatumo/dhulbahante question is in teality not in the hands of somaliland/puntland but in their own disunity...

the somaliland dhulbahante land is patrolled and monitored by dhulbahante

the puntland dhulbahante land as small as it is today is in the hands of dhulbahante

the khaatumo dhulbahante land is also under control of actual dhulbahante folks..

the sole reason of somaliland influence in dhulbahante lands is the simple fact that somaliland are more committed to their claim of those lands in terms of dollars and political efforts in accomodating them..

puntland however claims those lands on allegiance and doesnt put the same efforts into integrating them, it should come from dhulbahante sincerity to the cause.

having said that laascaanood can switch sides tomorrow and their is nothing isaaq can do about but they wont because of not true allegiance to the somaliland cause but to few men who are under the payroll of somaliland.

isaaqs independence would be a lot stronger if it was based on lands fully under their control build on true somaliland foundations. these disputed lands make their case slightly more awkward for the world to actually give sincere consideration to their independence.

i do believe that if puntland did seek outright independence from somalia that the northern factions would come to some sort of an agreement that would suit all 3 parties in question..

[AwRastaale]

If Dhulos wanna be free from SL, then they must win their rights to self-determination like Somaliland. Just calacaal is not self-determination. Ask even the United States, who coined that term.

How many years did they fight the British?

I believe Dhulos want SL and already the majority feel comfortable under SL. Once they see Mogadishu and Hawiye, they going to run back like Samatar. They just need reality check and SL should give them that opportunity.

Why not allow AMISOM to run Buhodle for few years?

[Rambie]

because we can

That is not fair the guy wrote a long passionate essay and you only replied with three words

[Rambie]

Omg who gives a fuck
Warya quit your bitching and stop embarrassing

What do you think of Canbashe?

[whitehartlane]

If Dhulos wanna be free from SL, then they must win their rights to self-determination like Somaliland. Just calacaal is not self-determination. Ask even the United States, who coined that term.

How many years did they fight the British?

I believe Dhulos want SL and already the majority feel comfortable under SL. Once they see Mogadishu and Hawiye, they going to run back like Samatar. They just need reality check and SL should give them that opportunity.

Why not allow AMISOM to run Buhodle for few years?

who is running buuhoodle right now?..i thought reer buuhoodle were running the affairs of buuhoodle unless there is a secretly masked habar jeclo mayor making decisions in tht region..you delusional iidoor..making out somaliland out to be some major force..

like the choice is between isaaq or amisom, dont make me spill me early cup of shah inabti..buuhoodle and 90% of dhulbahante land is under dhulbahante hands..and as much as you would like to believe isaaq invented peace & development, there is no monopoly on self governance...i am sorry to bust your bubble..

laascaanood didnt enter somaliland thanks to bullets of isaaq guns and believe you me they are not part of somaliland by the iron fist of somaliland..if tht was the case buuhoodle would have been by now part and parcel of somaliland domain...

isaaq the most delusional somali entity..

[AwRastaale]

If they wish to exercise self-determination, they have to win like Isaac did against Barre. There is no silver spoon here son.



Khaatumo is like Hamas rule in Israel. Every year they will see one more village gone. Isaac in SL and Isaac in Israel have the same mindset

Long term plan is the key and patients. We will build the temple of Silanyo in Buhodle. Dhagaxdiina waxan ka kenay horufadhi

[BenevolentGaraad]

i do believe that if puntland did seek outright independence from somalia that the northern factions would come to some sort of an agreement

SL wants the DBH land and doesnt really care about the people. PL wants the DBH people and doesnt really care about the land.

Why do you think the Harti dream died in PL. Whats the story behind that? I know what smooth would say, but I wonder what an MJ's opinion is on the matter. Why would PL give up so willy nilly on Sool and Sanaag, both full of Harti people. It seems PL doesnt care about its terratorial integrity.

And what do u think that agreement would be, that all sides would agree on? What agreement in case of a functioning Xamar government, what agreement in case of a chaotic Xamar government?

[Prlnce]

If you like apples why do you dislike oranges they are both fruit?

[Togdeer]

Bismillahi raxmaani raxiim,

My question is as such: How do those that are pro-SL, support SL self-determination to govern themselves separate from Somalia, but at the same time, oppose the self-determination of Khaatumites to govern themselves separate from SL.

It seems like a basic question, and before asking it, I tried to make as manyobservations as possible.

One reply is that Khaatumo is a Diaspora construct along with old establishment political elite, and that it has little support from the regualar populace actually living there. If we had a popular vote referendum of Sool, Sanaag, and the Dhulbahante (DBH) parts of Togdheer, what option do you think would win:

become regions in an independent Somaliland
Become regions of an autonomous Puntland within Somalia
Become an autonomous Khaatumo within Somalia

We dont have the result of that referendum but we have some clues. DBH tribal elders had big conferences to set up SSC, and an even bigger conference to set up Khaatumo. So the traditional DBH elders have made clear where they stand. From my observations, when I hear from DBHs that have spent time in Sool, all the testimonials lead to the same conclusions:

There are DBH politicians who support SL for their own personal gain.
There are DBH militia that wear SL on their uniforms, as a means to extract resources from SL. These are the militia that hold Lascaanood.
Every other city/town has DBH militia, loyal to their subclan that remain indepedent of SL or PL.
As for the regular DBH populace (and DBH Diaspora), majority support Khaatumo, whether that be in their hearts, private conversations, public demonstrations, or financial/logistical support for Khatuumo militia.

If anyone disagrees with these points, explain which ones, and bring evidence.

I've also heard it mentioned that SL needs to maintain the integrity of the British Protectorate borders, because hope for international recognition will be lost without it. The answer to this is obvious. The international will NEVER recognize the independence of SL, and they've made that very clear. Barring a complete shakeup of global politics, SL independence chances are nonexistent. And SL's current state of limbo might become a problem in the future. We see how vicious/ruthless the international community is in Syria, Lybia, Yemen, etc.

Im not supporting open warfare. I think DBHs need to accept, live, and strive in the current situation, the de-facto state of Somaliland. But for all Waqooyi, whether they be Isaaq, Harti, Dir, or whatever, to ideologically support an autonomous Khaatumo (and autonomous SL and autonomous Awdal), and to support a change in borders and/or administration when the time comes for DBH to self-govern and achieve the self-determination that we wish for ourselves and for everyone.

Im interested in hearing opinions from pro-SL individuals knowledgeable of the current geopolitical climate, who probably know more than me. And please be respectful. I am not asking to start an argument but rather gain knowledge and insight from opposing opinions. Assalamu calaykum wa raxmatullahi wa tacaala wa barakaatu.

There are many answers to this question.
1. The areas that are claimed by reer khatumo are not solely inhabited by dhulbahante, most areas are shared with other clans such as Isaaqs and Wars.
2. Somaliland is claiming succession of the bases of sovereignty, Somaliland was an independent nation. While Khatumo is just a clan based thing
3. Puntland only claimed SSC not to unite the people, but to boost its own interests. Now they are not really bothered, because they got other problems to deal with such as SFG.
4. If Khatumo was to succeed, this would have a domino effect, not just in Somaliland but in the entire horn it Africa. Every clan would claim a piece of land and the others would fight, it would be 88 again.
5. Somaliland has internet in the land inhabited by dhulbahante, rumour has it that is where all the oil is. Somaliland is not looking to give away her future assets.

Now I want you to write the pros of a free Khatumo and the cons. I'm sure cons outweigh the pros.