Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

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Machiavelli2
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Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by Machiavelli2 »

What is holding us is fadhi ku dirrir iyo geeleena ayaa ka qurrux-badan kiina.

Britain’s Somalis

The road is long

Somalis fare much worse than other immigrants; what holds them back?

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BARBER shops are excellent places for gossip. Hassan Ali’s place in Kentish Town is no different. The north Londoner arrived in Britain from Somalia with dreams of becoming a mechanic. But he was good at cutting hair: you do whatever work you can, he says. Most Somalis—Britain’s largest refugee population—do not work. They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. In a country where other refugees have flourished, why do Somalis do so badly?


The first Somalis to arrive in Britain, over a century ago, were economic migrants. Merchant seamen settled in cities with docks: Cardiff, Liverpool and London. As civil war ravaged Somalia in the 1990s, refugees flocked to Britain. In 1999, the high-water mark, 7,495 Somalis arrived (11% of the refugees that arrived in Britain that year). Since then, the influx has slowed (see first chart); it still leaves a large community. The 2011 census identified 101,370 people in England and Wales who were born in Somalia.

Poverty is their first problem. Over 80% of Somali-speaking pupils qualify for free school meals. In Waltham Forest, a borough in east London, home to nearly 4,000 Somalis, 73% live in households on benefits. More than 50% of British Somalis rent from local councils, the highest proportion of any foreign-born population. In nearby Tower Hamlets 2010 data showed that Somalis were twice as likely as white Britons to be behind with the rent. The cost of their economic marginalisation hurts them, and is a toll on the public sector, too.

Education looks an unlikely escape route. Overcrowded houses mean children have nowhere to do their homework. In 2010-11 around 33% of Somali children got five good GCSEs, the exams taken at 16, compared with 59% of Bangladeshi pupils and 78% of Nigerian ones. Parents unable to speak English struggle. They see their children move up a year at school and assume they are doing well (in Somalia poor performers are held back). Their offspring, roped in as translators, are in no hurry to disabuse them.

This helps to explain the pitiful employment rates among Britain’s Somalis (see second chart). Just one in ten is in full-time work. Many Somali households are headed by women who came to Britain without their husbands. Fitting work around child care is a struggle. Without work, Somali men while away their days chewing khat, a mild stimulative leaf. Awale Olad, a Somali councillor in London, supports the government’s recent decision to ban the drug. But others fear it will needlessly criminalise a generation of men.

Religion, however, is an overstated problem. It is true that, like their Bangladeshi and Pakistani counterparts, some young Somalis are embracing stricter forms of Islam. Amina Ali, who hopes to stand as an MP at the next election, worries when she sees girls of three wearing headscarves. People can respect Islam without being so conservative, she says. But religion unites young Somalis with other young Muslims, says Ismail Einashe, a journalist. A few are radicalised, but most are not.

This cocktail of poverty and unemployment dogs Somalis elsewhere too. In 2009 they were the least-employed group in Denmark. The Norwegian government is so worried about its Somali community it wants research done on their plight. Even discounting such factors as religion, age and experience, compared with other black Africans in Britain, Somalis face an “ethnic penalty” when job-hunting. Their disadvantages are clear. But Britain is rightly perceived as a country in which it is relatively easy to set up businesses; it also offers the hope of a warm welcome with its large Somali and Muslim population. This should bode well for Somalis.

Many are hopeful. Somalis want their children to succeed, so growing numbers are hiring private tutors (see article). In 2000 just one Somali teenager in the London borough of Camden passed five GCSEs with good grades. To improve matters, the council and others set up the Somali Youth Development Resource Centre, which mentors students and lends them books. Last year the figure rose to 59%.

Abdikadir Ahmed, who works there, says his organisation encourages people to put the entrepreneurial skills they learn in gangs to better use. He works with Somalis locked up in Feltham prison, a young-offenders jail. Their numbers are dropping, he reckons. Somalis played little part in the summer riots of 2011.

This investment reflects a deeper change. For years many Somalis kept their suitcases packed, ready to return to Africa for good, says Mr Olad. Firm in the belief that they would soon be on the move, there was little point in putting down deep roots, or encouraging their children to do so. But the current generation of Somalis grew up in Britain. For them a permanent return to Somalia holds less appeal. Young British Somalis still embrace their nomadic heritage. But now they seek a dual identity, able to flit between two homelands and, they hope, to make the best of both.

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http://www.economist.com/news/britain/2 ... -road-long
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by MujahidAishah »

One thing article is old and Somalis in the uk are very successful from opening up business, to going to the best unis in the country

Younger generation is get more academic which is great :up:

I blame the euro trash that came to the uk in the early 00s :scusthov:
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by Machiavelli2 »

MujahidAishah wrote:One thing article is old and Somalis in the uk are very successful from opening up business, to going to the best unis in the country

Younger generation is get more academic which is great :up:

I blame the euro trash that came to the uk in the early 00s :scusthov:
Aishah

Ina Adeer, the article is only 2 1/2 years old, some families may have made some progress, but I highly doubt it has made any impact to that table of the Somali unemployment rate in Britain. Yes, more of the younger generation are now attending universities and being employed as professionals, but the overwhelming majority are females and most of them drop out of the work-force once they start a family. As for the "Euro-Trash" comment, they became the bogey man for failure. wixii xun-ba, reer Euro Trash baa leh.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by MujahidAishah »

Dadka waa wasaq aan waligood la arag but the unemployment figure has defo changed more Somali mothers are now employed as care workers you see them running from one old lady to another.

Somali dads are now uber drivers and London black cabbies :up:

Somalis are now doing it big IDS set the Somalis straight with the benefit cap it has drastically improved the Somalis

The qaad ban on the other hand has destroyed the Somali qaad chewer they are now drunks in broad day light :meles:
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by thehappyone »

I blame scandinavian euro trash.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by MujahidAishah »

thehappyone wrote:I blame scandinavian euro trash.
I blame the hollandise ET
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by Machiavelli2 »

MujahidAishah wrote:Dadka waa wasaq aan waligood la arag but the unemployment figure has defo changed more Somali mothers are now employed as care workers you see them running from one old lady to another.

Somali dads are now uber drivers and London black cabbies :up:

Somalis are now doing it big IDS set the Somalis straight with the benefit cap it has drastically improved the Somalis

The qaad ban on the other hand has destroyed the Somali qaad chewer they are now drunks in broad day light :meles:
Aishah,

This chart has been updated on October, 2015 (4 months ago) and as you can see, we are still at the bottom of the barrel and we made very little progress in our overall employment.

Worklessness by country of birth.
London's Poverty Profile.
Poverty Indicators.

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There are also differences in worklessness between countries: overall, 14% of those born in South Africa were workless compared to 66% of those from Somalia.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by thehappyone »

This is Aisha in last year General Elections casting a vote for UKIP.

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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by MujahidAishah »

thehappyone wrote:This is Aisha in last year General Elections casting a vote for UKIP.

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UKIP :usure: That's waraabe

I bleed red so I vote red :win:

Saqid Khan for London mayor :up:
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by TheFuturist »

Let me quickly debunk this nonsense article written by someone who obviously has a problem with Somalis. :childplease:

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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by AnigaiyoAdiga »

They are BLACK and MUSLIM. That's what. Things are getting better though..
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by TheFuturist »

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Machiavelli2 wrote:They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. In a country where other refugees have flourished, why do Somalis do so badly?
Clearly the author of this article has a sinister agenda and is out to demonise and vilify Somalis. Somalis are not any less educated or employed than their comparable refugee counterparts. This assertion as factually incorrect. Nor is it the case that all "other refugees have flourished". It is clear that the author has some strange sort of vendetta against Somalis.

This is not a permanent condition, it is a generational problem being experienced by first generation refugees/immigrants. Statistics have to be interpreted and have to be put into context. It seems the author has woefully misinterpreted the statistics. High unemployment levels, inadequate English and poor social integration does not surprise me at all. After all, we are talking about first generation refugees here. It is unrealistic to expect that first generation refugees will all come here speaking English, that they will all be graduates or that they will all gain immediate employment. It will take them time to adjust. I think it is unreasonable of the author to expect first generation refugees to speak perfect English, gain high-paying professional jobs and be fully integrated into British society upon arrival. This is just not going to happen immediately, or even a few years/decades after arrival, for a number of reasons that I will outline.
Machiavelli2 wrote:Poverty is their first problem. Over 80% of Somali-speaking pupils qualify for free school meals. In Waltham Forest, a borough in east London, home to nearly 4,000 Somalis, 73% live in households on benefits. More than 50% of British Somalis rent from local councils, the highest proportion of any foreign-born population. In nearby Tower Hamlets 2010 data showed that Somalis were twice as likely as white Britons to be behind with the rent. The cost of their economic marginalisation hurts them, and is a toll on the public sector, too.


Machiavelli2 wrote:Education looks an unlikely escape route. Overcrowded houses mean children have nowhere to do their homework. In 2010-11 around 33% of Somali children got five good GCSEs, the exams taken at 16, compared with 59% of Bangladeshi pupils and 78% of Nigerian ones. Parents unable to speak English struggle. They see their children move up a year at school and assume they are doing well (in Somalia poor performers are held back). Their offspring, roped in as translators, are in no hurry to disabuse them.

This helps to explain the pitiful employment rates among Britain’s Somalis (see second chart). Just one in ten is in full-time work. Many Somali households are headed by women who came to Britain without their husbands. Fitting work around child care is a struggle. Without work, Somali men while away their days chewing khat, a mild stimulative leaf. Awale Olad, a Somali councillor in London, supports the government’s recent decision to ban the drug. But others fear it will needlessly criminalise a generation of men.


This cocktail of poverty and unemployment dogs Somalis elsewhere too. In 2009 they were the least-employed group in Denmark. The Norwegian government is so worried about its Somali community it wants research done on their plight. Even discounting such factors as religion, age and experience, compared with other black Africans in Britain, Somalis face an “ethnic penalty” when job-hunting. Their disadvantages are clear. But Britain is rightly perceived as a country in which it is relatively easy to set up businesses; it also offers the hope of a warm welcome with its large Somali and Muslim population. This should bode well for Somalis.

Many are hopeful. Somalis want their children to succeed, so growing numbers are hiring private tutors (see article). In 2000 just one Somali teenager in the London borough of Camden passed five GCSEs with good grades. To improve matters, the council and others set up the Somali Youth Development Resource Centre, which mentors students and lends them books. Last year the figure rose to 59%.

Abdikadir Ahmed, who works there, says his organisation encourages people to put the entrepreneurial skills they learn in gangs to better use. He works with Somalis locked up in Feltham prison, a young-offenders jail. Their numbers are dropping, he reckons. Somalis played little part in the summer riots of 2011.

This investment reflects a deeper change. For years many Somalis kept their suitcases packed, ready to return to Africa for good, says Mr Olad. Firm in the belief that they would soon be on the move, there was little point in putting down deep roots, or encouraging their children to do so. But the current generation of Somalis grew up in Britain. For them a permanent return to Somalia holds less appeal. Young British Somalis still embrace their nomadic heritage. But now they seek a dual identity, able to flit between two homelands and, they hope, to make the best of both.
1. Consider where Somalis come from. In a place like Somalia, that has been in conflict for a long time, government institutions are very weak or non-existent. Education is not available to a significant proportion of the population; many are illiterate. This necessarily means it will take first generation Somali immigrants some time to adjust, to learn the language, to learn the country's systems and ways of doing things. This does not mean, however, that they should be unwelcome in the UK or that they are not able to learn English or gain employment... it will just take them that bit longer.

2. Not all immigrants are the same. . Do not compare immigrants from English speaking countries - with functioning governments and highly advanced education systems - to immigrants from non-English speaking countries. Those from English speaking countries i.e. Nigeria, India, Pakistan, Kenya, Ghana, Bangladesh are far more likely to speak English. They will will therefore integrate quicker.

3. Not all generations of immigrants are the same. Do not compare 1st generation Somali immigrants to 2nd generation Somali immigrants. The latter have been brought up in completely different environments and their life prospects are completely different. If you look at the second generation (i.e. their kids), I would be extremely surprised if they didn't speak English or were unable to write and read. The majority of them will also be employed

4. Employment prospects and income depend on and are affected by lots of things - one's ethnicity or background is just one of a multitude of interconnected factors. Other factors include educational attainment, qualifications, availability of suitable jobs in the local economy, discrimination, barriers to entry, competition in the job market. Is it their ethnicity or background that inherently causes them to experience high unemployment, or is it a little more complicated than that? There are parts of the UK almost exclusively inhabited by white British people where there is high unemployment, low educational attainment - does this make white Brits undesirable or inherently lazy? The answer is obviously no.

5. A person's employment status or educational achievement is not a permanent condition.No-one is born with a bundle of GCSE and degree certificates in their hand. These are obtained these over time, in enabling environments and given the right opportunities. I am sure there are first generation Muslim immigrants in the UK who have more qualifications and better paid jobs than the author - so he or she shouldn't generalise. And language is learned, not innate... and the learning process is not helped by the Government having cut funding to ESOL education across the country.

6. Living in social housing is not a crime, nor can the author shame Somalis who do live in social housing. Most Somalis have valid reasons to live in social housing. Firstly, the majority of Somalis arrived in the UK since the year 2000 and they mostly live in the South East of England which is the most expensive place to buy property in the UK, if not in Europe. They therefore have not had the same opportunity to accumulate wealth required to buy properties with an average property price of £530,000 ($770,000 USD). Secondly, unlike the average British person, they cannot rely on inheritances, 'the bank of mum and dad' or 'the bank of granddad and grandma' to pay for housing deposits in the tens of thousands of pounds. Thirdly, Somalis for religious reasons choose not to engage in activities that involve being charged or charging interest, as in Islam interest is considered usury, and therefore contrary to the teachings of Islam. So for religious reasons many Somalis, other Muslim communities and orthodox Jews choose to live in social housing. However, there are 4 million households in the UK who live in Social housing. Somali households in social housing are less than 0.5% of the total, so it is not the case that they are putting strain on the system.

This is not a permanent condition, it is a generational problem being experienced by first generation refugees/immigrants. The second generation is faring much better and things are getting better every year.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by gegiroor »

Most Somalis—Britain’s largest refugee population—do not work. They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. In a country where other refugees have flourished, why do Somalis do so badly?
That statement will not stand up to scrutiny. It is a false generalizations made about Somalis, and Somalis in different countries have proven that they do well and excel when given opportunity.

In my town Columbus, Ohio, Somalis are doing well. Businesses owned by Somalis and their home ownership - without going through the riba system - are amazing.

Somalis in UK are no different than the Somalis in Ohio; it is only the environment which is different. Therefore, the blame can't be on Somalis in UK alone but many factors are at play here. Still in UK, many Somalis are graduating from colleges and universities, and British Somalis are contributing very heavily to back home. Many are also opening businesses - at least the ones I know.

Bottom line, don't buy the negative stereo-typing that others are creating for us. Emphasize our achievements, sponsor statistics which show our progress in a positive light, and push back against those who are creating false impressions on us. The worst that you can do is be silent on the many false statements and statistics made about us.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by TheFuturist »

And as for employment, there are a lot of statistics banded around, purportedly showing how bad employment figures are for Somalis. Has anyone actually taken the time to look at the stats. and how they are put together? I have. Here's what I found:

Take this statement for example: X% of Somalis of working age population are employed or unemployed. Working age is anyone between the ages of 16 years and 65 years.

So, figures like this will include 16 to 21 yr old students in school, college and university, many of whom will not work as they are engaged in full time studies. It also includes the disabled, sick, carers, mothers of young children, who are over-represented in this subset of the population and this of course distorts the data.

Second, Somalis (immigrants and the Muslim community more generally) is in a subset of the population that is on average significantly younger than the general population. In other words the population is skewed towards the teens and 20s. This amplifies the problem of students being included in the "working age population". Hence the number of employed "working age population", which includes 16 to 64 yr olds will necessarily be lower.

Third, there is an undercount of 2nd generation Somalis - who are far more likely to me employed than 1st generation refugee Somalis - as acknowledged by even the Office for National Statistics. This is because the count of "Somalis" tends to only include Somalia-born Somalis, and not those Somalis who are UK-born, as the place of birth is the best proxy for ethnicity.This means that the employment figures are significantly understated because Somalis born in the UK, in Europe or elsewhere are not included - and they are far more likely to be employed.

Fourth, you have to take into consideration other qualitative aspects of the population to understand the data; the main one being date of arrival. There have been two main streams of Somali arrivals in the UK, at different points in time. Employment prospects and language skills will differ for each group, according to how long they have lived in the UK. The first group was small in number and arrived in the UK during the 1st world war, to fight in the war and a second cohort in the mid 1900s, as seamen, merchant shippers and to work for the Royal Navy (though many later worked in the steel industry and manufacturing). The 2nd stream arrived between 2000 (after the fall of the Soviet-backed Somali central government in the 90s) and the Ethiopian invasion and occupation of Somalia in 2006. Prospects for the first group is far better than the 2nd group and it isnt fair to lump them all together.

The second group, however, are relatively recent arrivals and it will take them some time to adjust, as I discussed in detail in my previous post in this thread. But having said that they are making significant progress; educational achievement is continually increasing and as is employment. Their current situation is not permanent, it is mainly a generational problem. As the 2nd generation grows up these statistics will be transformed, and we are already seeing Somali athletes, councillors, entrepreneurs, professionals becoming more common in the community.

Unfortunately people who hate Somalis or immigrants can't blame the UK's problems - whether economic, social, housing shortages, the government deficit - on Muslim immigrants and much less Somali Brits. At least not in any rational or reasonable way, though I understand it is something the author may choose to nevertheless do for political and ideological reasons. To put things into context, Somalis are less than 0.15% of the UK population.
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Re: Somalis fare much worse (in Britain) than other immigrants; what holds them back?

Post by TheFuturist »

Im done here. Hope you all found that insightful. Good night

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