Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

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Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by FAH1223 »

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Trump & Putin. Yes, It's Really a Thing

Over the last year there has been a recurrent refrain about the seeming bromance between Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. More seriously, but relatedly, many believe Trump is an admirer and would-be emulator of Putin's increasingly autocratic and illiberal rule. But there's quite a bit more to the story. At a minimum, Trump appears to have a deep financial dependence on Russian money from persons close to Putin. And this is matched to a conspicuous solicitousness to Russian foreign policy interests where they come into conflict with US policies which go back decades through administrations of both parties. There is also something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of evidence suggesting Putin-backed financial support for Trump or a non-tacit alliance between the two men.

Let me start by saying I'm no Russia hawk. I have long been skeptical of US efforts to extend security guarantees to countries within what the Russians consider their 'near abroad' or extend such guarantees and police Russian interactions with new states which for centuries were part of either the Russian Empire or the USSR. This isn't a matter of indifference to these countries. It is based on my belief in seriously thinking through the potential costs of such policies. In the case of the Baltics, those countries are now part of NATO. Security commitments have been made which absolutely must be kept. But there are many other areas where such commitments have not been made. My point in raising this is that I do not come to this question or these policies as someone looking for confrontation or cold relations with Russia.

Let's start with the basic facts. There is a lot of Russian money flowing into Trump's coffers and he is conspicuously solicitous of Russian foreign policy priorities.

I'll list off some facts.

1. All the other discussions of Trump's finances aside, his debt load has grown dramatically over the last year, from $350 million to $630 million. This is in just one year while his liquid assets have also decreased. Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks.

2. Post-bankruptcy Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin. Here's a good overview from The Washington Post, with one morsel for illustration ...

Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world.

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”


3. One example of this is the Trump Soho development in Manhattan, one of Trump's largest recent endeavors. The project was the hit with a series of lawsuits in response to some typically Trumpian efforts to defraud investors by making fraudulent claims about the financial health of the project. Emerging out of that litigation however was news about secret financing for the project from Russia and Kazakhstan. Most attention about the project has focused on the presence of a twice imprisoned Russian immigrant with extensive ties to the Russian criminal underworld. But that's not the most salient part of the story. As the Times put it,

"Mr. Lauria brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians “in favor with” President Vladimir V. Putin, according to a lawsuit against Bayrock by one of its former executives. The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a “strategic partner,” along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt."

Another suit alleged the project "occasionally received unexplained infusions of cash from accounts in Kazakhstan and Russia."

Sounds completely legit.

Read both articles: After his bankruptcy and business failures roughly a decade ago Trump has had an increasingly difficult time finding sources of capital for new investments. As I noted above, Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks with the exception of Deutschebank, which is of course a foreign bank with a major US presence. He has steadied and rebuilt his financial empire with a heavy reliance on capital from Russia. At a minimum the Trump organization is receiving lots of investment capital from people close to Vladimir Putin.

Trump's tax returns would likely clarify the depth of his connections to and dependence on Russian capital aligned with Putin. And in case you're keeping score at home: no, that's not reassuring.

4. Then there's Paul Manafort, Trump's nominal 'campaign chair' who now functions as campaign manager and top advisor. Manafort spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor for Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close Putin ally. Manafort is running Trump's campaign.

5. Trump's foreign policy advisor on Russia and Europe is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom. If you're not familiar with Gazprom, imagine if most or all of the US energy industry were rolled up into a single company and it were personally controlled by the US President who used it as a source of revenue and patronage. That is Gazprom's role in the Russian political and economic system. It is no exaggeration to say that you cannot be involved with Gazprom at the very high level which Page has been without being wholly in alignment with Putin's policies. Those ties also allow Putin to put Page out of business at any time.

6. Over the course of the last year, Putin has aligned all Russian state controlled media behind Trump. As Frank Foer explains here, this fits a pattern with how Putin has sought to prop up rightist/nationalist politicians across Europe, often with direct or covert infusions of money. In some cases this is because they support Russia-backed policies; in others it is simply because they sow discord in Western aligned states. Of course, Trump has repeatedly praised Putin, not only in the abstract but often for the authoritarian policies and patterns of government which have most soured his reputation around the world.

7. Here's where it gets more interesting. This is one of a handful of developments that tipped me from seeing all this as just a part of Trump's larger shadiness to something more specific and ominous about the relationship between Putin and Trump. As TPM's Tierney Sneed explained in this article, one of the most enduring dynamics of GOP conventions (there's a comparable dynamic on the Dem side) is more mainstream nominees battling conservative activists over the party platform, with activists trying to check all the hardline ideological boxes and the nominees trying to soften most or all of those edges. This is one thing that made the Trump convention very different. The Trump Camp was totally indifferent to the platform. So party activists were able to write one of the most conservative platforms in history. Not with Trump's backing but because he simply didn't care. With one big exception: Trump's team mobilized the nominee's traditional mix of cajoling and strong-arming on one point: changing the party platform on assistance to Ukraine against Russian military operations in eastern Ukraine. For what it's worth (and it's not worth much) I am quite skeptical of most Republicans call for aggressively arming Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. But the single-mindedness of this focus on this one issue - in the context of total indifference to everything else in the platform - speaks volumes.

This does not mean Trump is controlled by or in the pay of Russia or Putin. It can just as easily be explained by having many of his top advisors having spent years working in Putin's orbit and being aligned with his thinking and agenda. But it is certainly no coincidence. Again, in the context of near total indifference to the platform and willingness to let party activists write it in any way they want, his team zeroed in on one fairly obscure plank to exert maximum force and it just happens to be the one most important to Putin in terms of US policy.

Add to this that his most conspicuous foreign policy statements track not only with Putin's positions but those in which Putin is most intensely interested. Aside from Ukraine, Trump's suggestion that the US and thus NATO might not come to the defense of NATO member states in the Baltics in the case of a Russian invasion is a case in point.

There are many other things people are alleging about hacking and all manner of other mysteries. But those points are highly speculative, some verging on conspiratorial in their thinking. I ignore them here because I've wanted to focus on unimpeachable, undisputed and publicly known facts. These alone paint a stark and highly troubling picture.

To put this all into perspective, if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction, combined with this much solicitousness of Putin's policy agenda, it would set off alarm bells galore. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. And yet Putin is not the CEO of an American corporation. He's the autocrat who rules a foreign state, with an increasingly hostile posture towards the United States and a substantial stockpile of nuclear weapons. The stakes involved in finding out 'what's going on' as Trump might put it are quite a bit higher.

There is something between a non-trivial and a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence for a financial relationship between Trump and Putin or a non-tacit alliance between the two men. Even if you draw no adverse conclusions, Trump's financial empire is heavily leveraged and has a deep reliance on capital infusions from oligarchs and other sources of wealth aligned with Putin. That's simply not something that can be waved off or ignored.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by Hyperactive »

i dont understand why the media dont want push him and investigate him and just let him be clown!!!

i am sure he has so much different skeletons not even in the closet.... he didnt even release his income tax!! i think they didnt go after him cause they under stamate him. he knows he had it very easy. himself is suprised how far he could push.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by bluelovelady »

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... ith-russia

Trump’s Long Romance With Russia
When Donald Trump talks about his desire to have good relations between the U.S. and Russia, it’s not a recent attraction. Trump’s attempts to expand his business and his brand there date back decades, and this history casts a shadow over his pro-Russian foreign policy. As a presidential candidate, he courts Putin's favor, extending the charm offensive intended to build the Trump real-estate empire.

“Wouldn’t it be nice if actually we could get along with Russia?” Trump asked at a recent Republican presidential debate. It’s a line he’s used in rallies as well. Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin have exchanged praise and Trump said he “would probably get along with him very well.”

Trump’s attraction to Russia seems to be mutual. There is a Russian-language website that collects Trump news and offers sales of Trump books and products. There’s even a Trump 2016 Russian language mock campaign site.

What Trump rarely talks about is his decades-long effort to do business in the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia. Good U.S.-Russian relations are potentially very lucrative for the Trump Organization. The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

In the 1980s, Trump was often seen on news shows offering his services to negotiate with the Soviets. "Why don’t you negotiate the SALT talks for Reagan, Donald?” a man on the street once yelled at Trump, according to a 1990 profile of Donald and Ivana Trump in Vanity Fair. In 1987, Trump traveled to Moscow and Leningrad to discuss building hotels there. He even met with the Soviet ambassador to the U.S.

"It's a totally interesting place,” Trump said at the time. “I think the Soviet Union is really making an effort to cooperate in the sense of dealing openly with other nations and in opening up the country."

In a 1997 New Yorker profile, Trump talked about his trips to Russia to explore having the Trump Organization take part in skyscraper and hotel development projects in Moscow, including the reconstruction of the Moskva and Rossiya Hotels.

“That’s a very big project; I think it’s the largest hotel in the world,” Trump told Russian politician Alexander Ivanovich Lebed at the time. “And we’re working with the local government, the mayor of Moscow and the mayor’s people. So far, they’ve been very responsive.”

Lebed, a former Russian presidential candidate, was eager to help Trump get established in the Russian market. “If Trump goes to Moscow, I think America will follow,” he told Trump.

Trump traveled to Russia in the 1990s with developer Howard Lorber, whom Trump recently told the New York Times was one of his best friends. Lorber has “major investments” in Russia, according to Trump.

Negotiations over the two hotels eventually fizzled, but in 2008 the Trump Organization was at it again, announcing it planned to build elite residences and hotels in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Sochi, and license the Trump brand for other projects. Donald Trump Jr., the candidate’s son, made the announcement in a speech at the 2008 “Real Estate in Russia” conference.

The younger Trump made over half a dozen trips to Russia on behalf of the Trump Organization in the two years during which the U.S. real estate market was collapsing during the Great Recession.

“The emerging world in general attributes such brand premium to real estate that we are looking all over the place, primarily Russia,” Trump Jr. told a Manhattan audience in September 2008. He said that while Russia was on the Trump Organization’s “A-list” of emerging markets for investment, doing business there carried risks due to corruption and “because it is a question of who knows who, whose brother is paying off who, etc.”

Trump Sr.’s interest in Russian real estate development escalated in 2013. He met with Russian partners including developer Aras Agalarov to discuss building a replica of his SoHo residential development project in Moscow. Trump’s other parter in the SoHo deal was Alex Sapir, son of Georgian billionaire Tamir Sapir, a well-connected real estate developer in Russia.

“The Russian market is attracted to me,” Trump told Real Estate Weekly. “I have a great relationship with many Russians, and almost all of the oligarchs were in the room.”

That was also the year that Trump brought his Miss Universe pageant to Moscow. Trump invited Putin to the event, although the Russian President ultimately didn’t attend. The event was held at the Crocus City Hall in Moscow, which Agalarov owns.

“Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?” Trump tweeted at the time.
While he was in Moscow for the pageant, Trump announced that he was planning to build a skyscraper in Moscow. He gave no details and there’s been no news about the project since.

During this presidential campaign Trump has repeatedly espoused positions that are closer to Moscow’s policies than his rivals' are. He calls for the U.S. to leave Syria and “let Russia fight ISIS.” He believes the U.S. shouldn’t lead the international effort to help Ukraine fight Russian intervention. He said that there isn’t enough evidence to prove Russia is to blame for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.

Before he was a presidential candidate, Trump's hunger to be popular in Russia was less troubling. Now it is a conflict of interest. At minimum, there is the appearance of wrongdoing: The candidate's foreign-policy positions are conveniently aligned with his long-standing business agenda. But what’s good for the Trump Organization isn’t necessarily good for America.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by Adali »

Hyperactive wrote:i dont understand why the media dont want push him and investigate him and just let him be clown!!!

i am sure he has so much different skeletons not even in the closet.... he didnt even release his income tax!! i think they didnt go after him cause they under stamate him. he knows he had it very easy. himself is suprised how far he could push.
American Business is a freaking clown show, it's showbusiness, why kill the gold goose ? The the information age it is all about who can get the most attention of the public, an excited public watches more tv, listens radios etc and the adverts reach more people, business sell products etcetc

If you want to follow real politics of a large economic nation with influence, look at United Kingdom and Turkey... The US is a f-king joke only pathetic losers follow US politics.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by Hyperactive »

loool@Adali!! are you kidding me!! europe is irrelevant man, i dont even know your pm's name and i am not intrested in that little island.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by waryaa »

He'll be vetted b4 he's sworn in...
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by gurey25 »

FAH123 Trump got all the way because he is not alone.
There is a faction in the deep state that does not feel like warmongering and risking nuclear war with Russia,
they are the weaker party, the psychotic neo-cons are having the upperhand and their vehicle is Hillary.

Trump cannot get chummy with Putin and attempt to change foriegn policy without having backing from some parts of the establishment.
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by gurey25 »

Adali wrote:
Hyperactive wrote:i dont understand why the media dont want push him and investigate him and just let him be clown!!!

i am sure he has so much different skeletons not even in the closet.... he didnt even release his income tax!! i think they didnt go after him cause they under stamate him. he knows he had it very easy. himself is suprised how far he could push.
American Business is a freaking clown show, it's showbusiness, why kill the gold goose ? The the information age it is all about who can get the most attention of the public, an excited public watches more tv, listens radios etc and the adverts reach more people, business sell products etcetc

If you want to follow real politics of a large economic nation with influence, look at United Kingdom and Turkey... The US is a f-king joke only pathetic losers follow US politics.
Thats why i stopped watching US news ,
at first i found it hilarious, from Hannity to glen beck, and oriely show on fox. and then there is CNN which takes childishness to another level.
Some of the funniest sit on televison.
then the level of stupidity started scaring me, when i considered that this is the worlds superpower with all those nukes.
What if the stupidity and the ignorance of the masses is also infecting the leadership??

scary thought...
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by Adali »

gurey25 wrote:
Adali wrote:
Hyperactive wrote:i dont understand why the media dont want push him and investigate him and just let him be clown!!!

i am sure he has so much different skeletons not even in the closet.... he didnt even release his income tax!! i think they didnt go after him cause they under stamate him. he knows he had it very easy. himself is suprised how far he could push.
American Business is a freaking clown show, it's showbusiness, why kill the gold goose ? The the information age it is all about who can get the most attention of the public, an excited public watches more tv, listens radios etc and the adverts reach more people, business sell products etcetc

If you want to follow real politics of a large economic nation with influence, look at United Kingdom and Turkey... The US is a f-king joke only pathetic losers follow US politics.
Thats why i stopped watching US news ,
at first i found it hilarious, from Hannity to glen beck, and oriely show on fox. and then there is CNN which takes childishness to another level.
Some of the funniest sit on televison.
then the level of stupidity started scaring me, when i considered that this is the worlds superpower with all those nukes.
What if the stupidity and the ignorance of the masses is also infecting the leadership??

scary thought...
Indeed it is ! whatever works for companies is the rule, population is just a fat cash cow that they squeeze money out of.
Watch American Television summer and Christmas time, that is when companies pour money into their advertisement budgets and that is when News become more and more sensational and retarded BUY BUY BUY. :lol:
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Re: Trump and Putin - Yes, it's really a thing

Post by hangool79 »

Hyperactive wrote:i dont understand why the media dont want push him and investigate him and just let him be clown!!!

i am sure he has so much different skeletons not even in the closet.... he didnt even release his income tax!! i think they didnt go after him cause they under stamate him. he knows he had it very easy. himself is suprised how far he could push.

It's already decided Trump is most likely gonna win, FAH kid doesn't know shit and has been paddling from every single post and 'analysis' he made about the elections so far.
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