Cushitic custom of castrating enemies

[Raganimo]

I read this a while ago and found it to be quite interesting.

PREMODERN ETHNOGRAPHY
A CUSHITIC CUSTOM DESCRIBED AND EXPLAINED BY
MEDIAEVAL ARAB OBSERVERS

Here is the link:
https://www.academia.edu/attachments/33 ... ?s=regpath

[Raganimo]

The author never really presents any solid evidence for this particular tradition being practised by Somalis. His excuse is that Arab observers had a Muslim bias and wanted to present the Muslim Somalis in a positive light rather than as "savages". This seems a bit flimsy.

Some of the quotes were quite interesting though. Also, does anyone know why Afar never practised Islam on the same level as Somalis? They still practise the custom of their women walking around half-naked and other un-islamic customs.

[TheMightyNomad]

Cushitic is a language branch. Its not a race or ethnicity. Cushitic never implies a cultural monolith . Cushitic is not an identity either.

It would be as stupid as a Chinese calling themselves Sino or a norwegian referring to his culture as Germanic. In comparison ''Cushitic'' is just a random name pulled from the bible to refer to groups that have shared linguistic relations.

Are we supposed to expect Habeshis are culturally identitical to the Arabs because they are part of the semetic branch.

First of all that applies to Afar or Oromo's does not automatically apply to Somalis. Many people fall into this linear way of thinking that any cultural practice that other cushitic speaking groups have that Somalis don't have is an imposition by arabs or islam.

Its their way of denying Somalis agency by equating everything with European and Arab imposition. They make it seem like our whole universe and being revovles around externally driven imposition. We have nothing of unique or original to us. We have no claim on history nor culture.

It is a racist way of thinking and a complete denial.

But it also is a continuum of Eurocentric notion that Africans are monolith. Also the idea that Islamization equals arabization. It does not and islam does not inform a cultural uniformity either. Islam throughout is culturally diverse and prone to different interpretations formed by specific groups culture in question.

Somalis never in history walked around bare breasted, or did scarring or had a practice of castrating people. The sole fact there has not been any indication nor evidence through the various historical records and contemporary reality should be proof enough we never did such things.

[TheMightyNomad]

The author never really presents any solid evidence for this particular tradition being practised by Somalis. His excuse is that Arab observers had a Muslim bias and wanted to present the Muslim Somalis in a positive light rather than as "savages". This seems a bit flimsy.

Some of the quotes were quite interesting though. Also, does anyone know why Afar never practised Islam on the same level as Somalis? They still practise the custom of their women walking around half-naked and other un-islamic customs.

''Muslim bias'' provides for a very weak argument. There is ample evidence of many muslim writers writers wrote pejoratively about other muslim identified groups including ''Arabs''. Even if there was a bias it wouldnt be proof of anything as it becomes a complete division/composition fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division

Lastly the fact the writers errounously assumes the denote ''berber'' used by the Arabs refer to some monolith ethnic group. No , berber was used to refer to any and all non-zanj(bantu)and non-Habeshi groups living in the horn. It was a continuum of a relic term used by Ancient egyptians and Ancient greek geographers. It is an umbrella term.

The simple fact that he mentions how many Arab writers made distinction by referring to the inhabitance of these areas by naming them after their Ethnic name and Clan. Contradicts his assertions as well.

In regards to your question of Afar. i I dont think its a matter of not practicing islam up to a certain level. It is fundemental matter of cultural differentiation.

[Raganimo]

Cushitic is a language branch. Its not a race or ethnicity. Cushitic never implies a cultural monolith . Cushitic is not an identity either.

Genetic and linguistic evidence strongly suggests a common ancestry between the people in question. The languages evolved from the same source-language and the people were once one tribe.

Are you disputing this?

[Raganimo]

The author never really presents any solid evidence for this particular tradition being practised by Somalis. His excuse is that Arab observers had a Muslim bias and wanted to present the Muslim Somalis in a positive light rather than as "savages". This seems a bit flimsy.

Some of the quotes were quite interesting though. Also, does anyone know why Afar never practised Islam on the same level as Somalis? They still practise the custom of their women walking around half-naked and other un-islamic customs.

''Muslim bias'' provides for a very weak argument. There is ample evidence of many muslim writers writers wrote pejoratively about other muslim identified groups including ''Arabs''. Even if there was a bias it wouldnt be proof of anything as it becomes a complete division/composition fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division

Lastly the fact the writers errounously assumes the denote ''berber'' used by the Arabs refer to some monolith ethnic group. No , berber was used to refer to any and all non-zanj(bantu)and non-Habeshi groups living in the horn. It was a continuum of a relic term used by Ancient egyptians and Ancient greek geographers. It is an umbrella term.

The simple fact that he mentions how many Arab writers made distinction by referring to the inhabitance of these areas by naming them after their Ethnic name and Clan. Contradicts his assertions as well.

In regards to your question of Afar. i I dont think its a matter of not practicing islam up to a certain level. It is fundemental matter of cultural differentiation.

The Arabic "Barbar" comes from the Greek "Barbaroi" which is a term that they used for all non-Greeks. Even Western Europeans were "Barbaroi" according to the ancient Greeks. You're right that it's an umbrella term.

As for the Afar, then they've pretty much only been Muslim by name only for much of their history and have retained many of their pre-Islamic history compared to Somalis and other Muslims in the region.

[Raganimo]

First of all that applies to Afar or Oromo's does not automatically apply to Somalis. Many people fall into this linear way of thinking that any cultural practice that other cushitic speaking groups have that Somalis don't have is an imposition by arabs or islam.

Its their way of denying Somalis agency by equating everything with European and Arab imposition. They make it seem like our whole universe and being revovles around externally driven imposition. We have nothing of unique or original to us. We have no claim on history nor culture.

It is a racist way of thinking and a complete denial.


.

You make a very good point and I totally agree with this.

But it also is a continuum of Eurocentric notion that Africans are monolith. Also the idea that Islamization equals arabization. It does not and islam does not inform a cultural uniformity either. Islam throughout is culturally diverse and prone to different interpretations formed by specific groups culture in question.

Yes, there is room in Islam for culturally based interpretations within certain limits. This does not include the most basic elements of the Diin though. As an example, walking bare breasted like some Afar do would not be acceptable.

Somalis never in history walked around bare breasted, or did scarring or had a practice of castrating people. The sole fact there has not been any indication nor evidence through the various historical records and contemporary reality should be proof enough we never did such things

There is no physical evidence to suggest these things, I agree. But on the other hand, if Somalis, Afars, Oromo etc evolved from a single culture, then our proto-somali ancestors would most likely have practiced some of the same cultural practices as these other people.

[TheMightyNomad]

The Arabic "Barbar" comes from the Greek "Barbaroi" which is a term that they used for all non-Greeks. Even Western Europeans were "Barbaroi" according to the ancient Greeks. You're right that it's an umbrella term.

As for the Afar, then they've pretty much only been Muslim by name only for much of their history and have retained many of their pre-Islamic history compared to Somalis and other Muslims in the region.

Its true that during the Golden Age of Islam muslim writers picked up the geographic denote ''Barbar'' from the greeks upon studying vast greek litterature.

However, the first mention of the term actually dates earlier to the New Kingdom of Egypt (c. 1500 BCE), when it served as an ethnonym for the Puntites. Specifically, during the Hatshepsut expedition to Punt, the ancient Egyptians identified their Puntite counterparts as brbrta in hieroglyphic symbols. This is believed to have been an onomatopoeic imitation on the Egyptians’ part of the “bar” or “ber” sound that was apparently common in the Puntite language




I disagree. Many Somali pre-Islamic religious practices have been incorporated into the Islamic faith, not unlike how the pagan practices in Europe were incorporated into Christianity. The sky god Waaq’s characteristics are similar to those of Allah’s. Waaq was thought to have created man to fear and praise him. Genealogy played an important role in both pre-Islamic religion and Islam. When Islam spread throughout the Horn of Africa, indigenous clan founders transfigured into Islamic saints.

In otherwords we Somalinized Islam. Infact i would argue Islam was not as foreign in nature as many of people make it out be. If it was it would not have had gain such acceptance with Somalis in comparison. What part of communal pray is foreign to Somalis? Circumcission? Dowry was not introduced via Islam. Islam hugs a large constitutions of values under one umbrella. Polygamy was not introduced by Islam, neither was the sexual modesty.

Some of Islam's habits can clearly been seen as coming from the mind of a desert dweller. i.e. all desert cultures have certain geographic sensitivities. (focus on camels and other realities unique to desert life). But this is a geographical cultural accommodation not a race or ethnic one. I.e. Nomads in Arabia and desert nomads in the Somalia have certain ways of dealing with their desert environment.

So to say to that because Afar run around naked and chop of genitals its a sign that they kept their pre islamic practice in comparison to Somalis is a division fallacy. First ignores the fact there is no evidence or indication to conclude such a thing , secondly it leanes towards the idea what is logically true for them is suddenly logically true for us.

Did we lose some ancient practices with the advent of Islam. Sure we did, as did Arabs, but for us we cannot say what these practices were in specific. We just dont have evidence for such.

[TheMightyNomad]

Yes, there is room in Islam for culturally based interpretations within certain limits. This does not include the most basic elements of the Diin though. As an example, walking bare breasted like some Afar do would not be acceptable.

I agree. but point being it is seperate from our cultural concept of sexual modesty i.e. ''Xishood''. The fact that we have a term for it illustrates it might have been a cultural construction pre-islam.

Even the emphasis on being clothed ''dhidhiibso' .If it was merily an islamic imposition i would like to think this would have an Arab terminology for it.

There is no physical evidence to suggest these things, I agree. But on the other hand, if Somalis, Afars, Oromo etc evolved from a single culture, then our proto-somali ancestors would most likely have practiced some of the same cultural practices as these other people.

That would also be hard to argue. Because once the seperate cushitic groups seperated thousands of years ago , they would have evolved seperately so did their costums. As it would be impacted by several factors.(geography,locality,climate,occupation and trade).

Following that logic evolving from a single culture one would have to assume all cushitic speaking cultures remain static.

[Futurist]

Aargoosasho (revenge) in Somali means castration in old Somali.

[GalliumerianSlayer]

Somali aristocrats also had eunuchs.

[AwRastaale]

Language, culture and ancestry are inseparable.

Those who speak Germanic languages have their roots in Germany. Ask the Anglo-Saxons.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Aargoosasho (revenge) in Somali means castration in old Somali.

Very very interesting.

[James Dahl]

In ancient Borana society I think you couldn't become a man until you had cattle and had collected the genitals of an enemy. I don't think Rendille ever had anything like that though.

[jalaaludin5]

Aargoosasho (revenge) in Somali means castration in old Somali.

Very very interesting.

Aargoosasho has nothing to do with castration or genitals.

I think its Aar as in lion. Isn't the male lion called aar?
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