Atheists

[LilTrigger]

How come, do atheist believe people of religion are brainwashed? At least most of those I encountered over the net believe so. I ask this here because there are some people who are atheists.

Any insight?

[PH.D.]

We are brainwashed? Hey at least we acknowledge that people exist for a reason and that every biological phenomenon has a creator behind it

[dhuusa_deer]

Lit-trig,

That is right. It is not due to chance alone that well over 90% of religious ppl believe the same religion as their parents.

Children are brainwashed at very young age, before they can think for themselves, what God is and how their religion (religion of their parents) is the ONLY true religion. That IS brainwashing.

Tell, Little-Trig, do you believe Islam out of conviction or accept it becuz you were born into it? Be honest.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="PH.D."]We are brainwashed? Hey at least we acknowledge that people exist for a reason and that every biological phenomenon has a creator behind it [/quote]

Why do ppl exist for a reason? what reason or evidence do you have to believe 'every biological phenomenon has a creator behind it.'

[Caana-Nuug]

Double-D! You say and I quote:

>>That is right. It is not due to chance alone that well over 90% of religious ppl believe the same religion as their parents.<<

Then how do you account for the numerous people who convert to one religion or another every year? everyday? Islam included of course! These people leave behind their fore-fathers' religions for a new one, some atheists become Muslims, how do you account for that?

About a year ago, I met a great lady named Kathy, she converted over a decade ago to Islam at the expense of her family and her husband. She is an Irish-American and abandoned catholicism for Islam. She said something that will stay with me for years: "It was the Qur'an that spoke to me, I did not convert because of Muslims." She told me of how she struggled over the years, her husband divorced her and got custody of her kids, her parents, siblings and the community she was a part of shunned her, she said that she was dead broke at one point and the brink of becoming homeless. And yet, she never abandoned Islam, she stuck to it, right now, she remarried, to a Muslim man, has a son, and is involved in dawa'h of other women.

She always says "The light of Islam is going to shine from the West." and she is right. Look at you, a born Somali, Muslim at some point I am sure, both of parents Muslims, abandoned your religion for what? For science?

I studied biological anthropology a.k.a. human evolution in college as a requirement for my major. What a load of bull cr*p! Supposedly we (humans) came from the apes (missing link)-> home erectus (first to leave Africa?)->Neanderthals (Big nosed, Western Europe)->Homo Sapiens (Smaller skulls~more intelligence). All of it a theory!

Not a shred of proof! Where is the evidence?

[dhuusa_deer]

Conversion rates don't account for much. The conversion rates into or out of religions are anemic. Most reliable studies show religious numbers are directly correlated to birth rates not neophyte rates.

I left my religion becuz it conflicted what I believed. Not for science!

Evolution is not just a 'theory.' It is a FACT. You don't know what a 'theory' means.

A theory explains facts. Some theories are strong, others are weak. But what decides what theory is accepted as true is its explanatory power. How well it explains the studied phenomenon and how will its predictions conform with reality.

Now Evolution is a FACT demonstrated repeatedly with plethora of evidences and facts supporting it.

There is no 'prove' in science, only facts. We can't prove ANY science theory, only show how accurately it describes facts. Prove entails 100% certainty, science is tentative process.

So I can't provide you with 'prove' of evolution but I can provide the evidence for evolution.

[Caana-Nuug]

I disagree! Conversion rates are reflective of birth rates? United States and much of the Western world have lower birth rates than the developing world, namely the Middle East, and SE Asia! However, we find many Westerners converting to Islam. How do you explain that?

You say you left Islam because it conflicted with what you believed, may I ask what that is?

The theory of evolution is a theory, just like gravity is a theory! It is not a fact, a fact is a fact, e.g. it's a fact that humans have two hands, why because we see it with our own eyes (there is evidence to support it). The theory of evolution is a theory, I know what a theory is, what a hypothesis is and what a fact is. Science may not operate on the laws of nature by proving things, but it can certainly differentiate between a fact and a theory.

You claim that evolution is supported with a plethora of evidences, but explanation of such evidence or their existence thereof is open for debate. It is not tangible or concrete like our hands are.

I find it ironic that many of your fellow atheists, agnostics, etc. that so dearly believe in evolution follow the same interpretations that people of religion follow. No difference! You claim there is no prove of God, yet you can not prove evolution! Neither can you disprove there is God.

Evolution is a theory, very shaky, open for multiple interpretations and lacks concrete evidence to support it. No one has seen homo erectus, no one knows those bones they dug up in East Africa ever belonged to homo erectus, because no one actually knows how they looked like, no one knows about the missing link, no evolution apologist can actually provide any type of evidence to support any of the claims they make.

[Cawar]

"Evolution is a theory, very shaky, open for multiple interpretations and lacks concrete evidence to support it"

On the contrary, many scientific theories and proofs are contradicting that of evolution to say the least. If any, they support that of a creator, its just logic and common sense!!!!!!!!!


The Q. is how can something evolve by itself with out any influence by outside forces????

Heck, the bacteria needs energy and viruses to mutate, Viruses need life(i.e. living cells to replicate and mutate) so how can life begin with out any outside influence???


Allah SWT said : That he made water out of every living thing...that water is the essence of life. guess what ??? the msot advanced scientists are loking for signs of life in Mars because they thought/think there might have been some H2O somewhere in Mars..

So much for Dhuuso's claim and his bee brainn size.... Gues what DD....We know science and we belive in God>>>how about that???

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Caana-Nuug"] I disagree! Conversion rates are reflective of birth rates? United States and much of the Western world have lower birth rates than the developing world, namely the Middle East, and SE Asia! However, we find many Westerners converting to Islam. How do you explain that?[quote]

No, that is not right. Remember 90%+ figure would have to contradict that, don't you think. If most ppl believe the same religion as their parents, meaning the religion of their birth, how can conversion rate 'reflect' birth rate?

Many westerners DON'T convert to Islam. In fact, 75% of all converts revert back to their old believes after just 1 year. Here is study by a muslim a professor (it is a media link):

http://www.radioislam.com/_asx/PublicAf ... mleave.asx

[quote="Caana-Nuug"]You say you left Islam because it conflicted with what you believed, may I ask what that is?

[/quote]

don't believe in God, believe religions are man made, conflict with Humanist world view to name a few

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Caana-Nuug"]
The theory of evolution is a theory, just like gravity is a theory! It is not a fact, a fact is a fact, e.g. it's a fact that humans have two hands, why because we see it with our own eyes (there is evidence to support it). The theory of evolution is a theory, I know what a theory is, what a hypothesis is and what a fact is. Science may not operate on the laws of nature by proving things, but it can certainly differentiate between a fact and a theory.[quote]

Gravity is a theory AND a fact. Are you floating? What is keeping you from floating? Why do apples fall from trees? Why does the earth orbit the Sun? Gravity is the answer. So gravity is a theory AND a fact. The theories of Gravity -- Einstein's special theory of relativity and Newtons theory -- both explain gravity. Same with Evolution theory.

You claim to know what a theory is but like I just explained to you above, you really don't. Most ppl who don't agree with evolution dismiss it on the grounds it is just a theory without looking at all the evidence for it. Theories explain FACTS, there are NO theories that don't explain facts. The goal behind the formulation of a theory is to explain facts, observed facts. Remember that Evolution theory is OBSERVED fact, we have seen evolution taking place in labs and in nature.

[quote] You claim that evolution is supported with a plethora of evidences, but explanation of such evidence or their existence thereof is open for debate. It is not tangible or concrete like our hands are. [quote]

So what if it is open to debate? That doesn't discredit it in any form.


[quote]I find it ironic that many of your fellow atheists, agnostics, etc. that so dearly believe in evolution follow the same interpretations that people of religion follow. No difference! You claim there is no prove of God, yet you can not prove evolution! Neither can you disprove there is God. [quote]

No, they don't. I as an atheist believe in Evolution BECUZ it is a well decumented and tested theory. I observed it with my own eyes in the lab. I have studied all the evidence and predictions...and concluded that we descended from ape-like creature some 5.5-8 million years ago.

I NEVER claimed there is NO prove of God. You can't prove or disprove God. I can not prove Evolution but I can show it to be a fact like I can show gravity.

[quote]Evolution is a theory, very shaky, open for multiple interpretations and lacks concrete evidence to support it. [quote]

But there IS 'concrete' evidence supporting it. Where do you wanna start?

[quote]No one has seen homo erectus,[quote]

How can any1 see homo erectus when it is extinct Besides that is not a reason not believe or refute the fact that homo erectus existed. I never seen my great grandfather but I know he existed.

[quote] no one knows about the missing link, .[/quote]

what missing link?

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Sobxan Allah this DD is lost indeed may Allah guide him

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Cawar"]
On the contrary, many scientific theories and proofs are contradicting that of evolution to say the least. If any, they support that of a creator, its just logic and common sense!!!!!!!!![quote]

What science theories? Name them.

Again, another anti-evolutionist who doesn't have the foggiest idea of what a 'theory' or 'prove' is. You can't 'prove' anything in science. There are NO 'scientific theories' that support a 'creator.'

Where are you getting this nonsense?

[quote]The Q. is how can something evolve by itself with out any influence by outside forces????[quote]

Ever heard of invariant natural laws, evolution theory, symbiotic theory, abiogenesis?

[quote]So much for Dhuuso's claim and his bee brainn size.... Gues what DD....We know science and we belive in God>>>how about that???[/quote] where is your refuation of Evolution theory with 'science' knowledge?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="SoMaLiSiZz"]Sobxan Allah this DD is lost indeed may Allah guide him [/quote]

I'm indeed lost...from blind islamic herd trudging towards tip of the cliff. Alxamdulilaah for that

[SoMaLiSiZz]

[quote="dhuusa_deer"][quote="SoMaLiSiZz"]Sobxan Allah this DD is lost indeed may Allah guide him [/quote]

I'm indeed lost...from blind islamic herd trudging towards tip of the cliff. Alxamdulilaah for that[/quote]



and yet you say ---> Alxamduillah <----Allah is great indeed

[dhuusa_deer]

somalisizz,

allahu akbar!

now, show us the evidence for creation theory!