How did Japan abolish clan structure and embraced nationalism?

[PureQ]

Japan went from this (when clannism was strongly rooted in their culture).





To this in the early 20th century





Then today in modern Japan





Meanwhile in Somalia...

In 1500s



In 2016

[PanSomaliNationalist]

Stop praising indhoyar gay negro

[TeeriReturns]

so how long did it take the japs from clan based to nation based? very interesting, and we need to know what they did to root out qabiil.

[Estarix]

One faction conquered and sumbitted the rest - one by one.
Read up on Oda nobunaga.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

One faction conquered and sumbitted the rest - one by one.
Read up on Oda nobunaga.

Plus, the Japanese already had a sophisticated, pre-industrial civilisation. They are one of the finest craftsmen in the world. There's a reason the Western powers wanted to open Japan up for trade.

You can't compare nomadic pastoralists with no history of nation-building to an ancient, feudal, highly centralised and structured nation state.

[Ben Dover]

Besides, their strong sense of nationalism and belief in the emperor emanates from the teachings of Shento, the state religion. All Japanese (from the high up the food chain Diamyos and Samurai to low artisans and peasants) believed in submitting to one emperor. Because according to their religion, the emperor is a direct descendent of the Godess of the Sun Amaterasu.

There was always one emperor in Japan, even during the feudal Shogunates. There was always a strong sense of national identity, this is further heightened during their Sakoku (closed country) period.

You can not compare the Japanese to Somalis.

[PrinceNugaalHawd]

We should learn from Japan..

[gurey25]

The clan structure applied to only the Samurai elite which were only 5% of the country.
They were a highly educated and sophisticated elite.
This is completly different from somalis or any other clan structure.

The nobility and elite brought europe into modernity, japan just had a better organized elite.

[GAMES]

The clan federal system we have is the best way to go, IMO. Everyone betters their side of the country.

[Basra-]

The clan structure applied to only the Samurai elite which were only 5% of the country.
They were a highly educated and sophisticated elite.
This is completly different from somalis or any other clan structure.

The nobility and elite brought europe into modernity, japan just had a better organized elite.

gurey


So if Japanese has 5% of elite clanist sect--which I assume was the ruling class--how different is it from the elite European aristocrat- the English in particular? I mean--the English, the Germans, The Russians, The Austrians---those European countries had elite aristocratic system that ruled the nation well. Look at Japanese today. They are no different from the Europeans. Organised, civilized, clean and prosperous. I think the Somalis had a good this with The Sultaanism--but something went wrong down the history line. I think monarchy and the aristocratic system is a good thing for a society. Its human natural order I suppose. Todays aristocracies are super rich people.

[gurey25]

sadly a well educated elite is what lead to advanced societies, we can speculate if a more equal society could have done it,
but its difficult to imagine.
Somalis never had to adapt, if most of your society was a nomadic highly mobile army that could dominate anything till the advent of muskets
why adapt?

even then a somali force facing muskets and cannons could overwhelm the enemy with cavalry or retreat at will
why worry.

the death of somali nomads freedom came with the advent of breechloading rifles, machine guns and aircraft.

and just our luck the Ethiopians got 200,000 of those practically free of charge in the 1890's.

we were done for.

[Basra-]

Islam demands muslims to be advanced and pursue progress, but the arab culture is lazy and conservative. In Quran it clearly states seek knowledge upto China. Yet--the muslims are the laziest people. Christians are more advanced than muslims!


Example while driving I could tune in to a Christian radio stations---they are preaching the gospel. u can also tune in the muslim station. There is a stark difference between the two preachers. The Christian is all about --uplifting yourself, your community etc

The muslim preachers is about the final judgement day, and fear mongering or pointing finger. Its like by the time u r done listening u r not uplifted but afraid of the hell lol


The Christian channel--they are so advanced that they have a show where they want u to live a Christian life. They advice how to manage your money--avoid debt---how to make smart choices in a Christian way. Imagine a sophisticated sheikh preaching how to plan your check book, help your community---take power away from himself and give it back to God?


Like USA __divided between conservatives and progressives---- Christian and Muslims are devided exactly like that too lol

[gurey25]

Basra cultures change over time, nothing remains static.
by them 11th century muslims were almost alien in outlook to todays muslims.
Would you believe a common charecteristics of muslims from spain to india used to punctuality , and almost OCD like obsession with precision
and perfection. Every muslim family in Iran and Spain and Syria kept meticulous gardens . the arts were celebrated so was music.

now look at this, a british visitor to germany wrote a book about his observations of germans in the 1860's.
He found them to be lazy, unmotivated, bad hygiene , loud and obnoxious and drunk and disorderly .
they are still drunks but they are 180% different today, and this was when they were starting their modernization,
he concluded that germans are savages and will never amount to anything, savagery and lack of intelligence was in their nature.

remind me to look up the book it was an interesting read.

there was a siniliar book about japan in the 1870's juts after the meiji restoration and american visitor found them also to be lazy,
uneducated, stupid and dirty.

today both germans and japanese are obcessed with percision and punctuality and are very clean and hygienic and well organized.
a very different picture.

[Basra-]

LOL@gurey


Yeah all the English aristocratic books I have read they have commented on the hygine and savagery of the Germans. Yet--surprisingly---when the English monarchy wanted a prince or a princess they went to Germanic monarchy. During Regency the son of George the 3rd held his nose upon meeting his future Germanic wife. She was also ugly. He had to be drunk to sleep with her and therefore sire her daughter, the princess charlotte who ended up dying in birth 17 years later.


japan and Germans must have something that reflects their success today. Maybe they had a good foundation. They had monarchy which gave them an advantage over the nation without monarchy.

Its funny--that Both Japanese and German cars are the most respected cars in the world.


Its seems like they are intelligent but not ilbaax and superficial like the French.

[GAMES]

Basra would definitely not survive in Japan. Their food portions are tiny and so small....