1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

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1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

In 1935, German historian Kurt Wendt wrote this interesting German-language translation of Ethiopian manuscripts dealing with Amir Nur Mujahid.

It's titled "Amharische Geschichte eines Emirs von Harar im XVI. Jahrhundert"

"Amharic story of an Emir of Harar in the XVI. century"

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"Tradition testifies Amir Nur Mujahid was from Somali-Darod tribe of Marehan"

You can read the journal piece here;

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43581078
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

The German got the complete name of Amir Nur down saying he is;

Nur Ali Abdullahi of ad-Dhuha Suha/Marehan

Marehan have his abtirsi down as

Nur Ali Abdullahi Nur Yusuf Mataan Ciis Ahmed Mohamed Da'ud Abadir of reer Hodanbari/Mareexaan.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person= ... irsiLang=1

Notice his family surname is listed as ad-Dhuha Suha family in the German piece and in Marehan geneology he is part of reer Hodanbari

Dhuha = morning
Suha: beautiful/amazing

Hodan: wealthy/amazing (dhulkaan waa hodan)
Bari ; daybreak/early morning (nabad ku bari)

The family name is basically "waking up to a beautiful, vibrant morning" or "morning light"
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

Bendover-

I recently came across a 2005 post you made. I would estimate you to be about 40 now even if you may deny it.

You know what I thought when I read that 2005 post of yours' and realized you haven't changed a day in 2019?

What a big, focking loser. Seriously. You are pathetic.

Look at you; we are in a topic where in 1935 (NINETEEN THIRTY FIVE) a German writing about Harar history is transcribing Amir Nur is Marehan.

You have dropped all pretenses that this is about self-respect and pride and dignity for you to argue anything concerning this as if you are a legitimate competitor to Marehan in this history.

You have realized you aren't. You never were.

You could have tried to convince yourself of that when arguing "Afweyne" did this was a possibility; a tactic you DID try at first with Harvey Sabestian'a Amir Nur biography from 1974 (as well as saying Afweyne gave Shire Jama credit for Somali script until 1961 and 1966 were found).

Where is the Afweyne card today? Gone and it took whatever possibility of relevance you had with it.

The Afweyne card is gone and so too is whatever dignity and pride you could argue from.

Now it's just pure resentment; pure tribal jealousy. It makes you so little and so pathetic; so primitive even. Again, I must sadly say; what a loser. Damn.

Truth be told, I don't know how I would be if I was in your shoes.

I mean of Somalis you are Isaaq/Habar Jeclo and I am Darod/Marehan.

Whereas Germans translating Ethiopian works in 1935 are recognizing the my historical prominence, you are literally a complete nothing.

You have no history. No beginning. You have achieved nothing. You have no recognition, no worth. You have literally 0 value as a clan next to what Darod/Marehan has accomplished.

Even your lunatic-like and completely irrational response to seeing 1961 and 1966 records of the Somali script is motivated by that gaping insecurity after I found out Galal is Isaaq/Habar Jeclo and would have been the FIRST of your people to achieve something.

I am human and a work in progress when it comes to getting over tribalism, but wallahi oo billahi it is hard in my brain for me not to think as if I am superior to you because I am Darod/Marehan. Who could not think that if they were in our shoes with the history and legacy behind us?

Maybe you understand that better than us which is why you interact more with us than any other group; but even of that; it just dawned on me why the attention is always one sided;

What historical mention is there of Isaaq/Habar Jeclo to discuss?

What achievement is there? What historical leadership is there?

I actually wish there was some occurrences as it would give me an opportunity to learn more about your people, but unfortunately it is an experience denied to us since such occurences do not exist.

Finally, I will address the Hiraabe Goyta thing in a bit after I am finished with a report.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

What a loser this bendover guy is, do you see any marehan member commenting on idoor history?

But as the loser you are you come rushing in. It shows how obsessed you are with marehan. A huge inferiority complex. You probably set up an automatic email alerter when a new topic is created on gedo section.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

Here comes the fool again. Have some self respect. No marehan cares about your history. No one cares what you put in the somaliland section. But here you are again with your obsession.

By this point I don't even think you can help yourself it has become your life.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

The problem is not what is being said. The problem is why do you care?

When we don't give a sh!t about your history, for all i care you can put Hitler to be from isaaq and not a single marehan would either read your thread or reply.

That says it all.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

Ok pal.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

The fact you think you won shows your weak understanding. No one is running
Your just making my point for me with your obsession and with a huge inferiority complex.

Ben Dover if these two things don't reach you then you are a lost case

1) when your addressing me you address me with my sub clan marehan. When I address you I say isaaq

2) the fact that you came to this thread and read it when no marehan would care about your history shows that you have an inferiority complex

But you are too dumb to realise that.

So ok pal
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Nomand »

It's the stalker again i have heard of a man stalking a woman or vice versa but first time I heard an individual stalk an entire qabil

:lol:

What a loser why would I waste my time? My time is more valuable to me. But you go ahead and spent hours researching and doctoring history.

What a loser.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by ReturnOfMariixmaan »

Emir Nur is one of the consequential figures in the Horn. He killed the Ethiopian emperor by his hand and handed his head as a wedding present to the widow of the Imaam. It always a struggle for power between House of Solomon (Amxaaro) vs House of Sade (Mareexaan) since Futuh Al Habasha. Harar is our Lailbela in history. Marexaan are royalty

:wow:
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

1. On the general issue of nicknames, it is important to remember that;

A. There is a scarcity of information over all and even less of that scarce information has been revealed to us. This means our general knowledge of that history is still developing and there is a lot for us to find out.

Example: I have never come across this German article before someone sent it to him.

B. It is important to understand whose perspective we are reading. These are not writings and accounts by Somalis, but people from different cultures hundreds of years ago. Inevitably, they will sometimes have an exonym as opposed to endonym; a name for someone which the person does not call themselves.

Example (Place): The English call it Germany, the Arabs call it Alemanya, but the Germans call their country Deutchland.

Example (Person): The famous Turkish governer of Algiers was called Oruc Rais by the Turks, Arrudye by the Spanish, but all over the world he has come to be known by the famous name Barbarossa (Red Beard) which the Italians called him. The man never called himself "Barbarossa" for a single second.

C. Harar was a poly-ethnic, poly-lingual society. The political administration that was built from there wasn't a "Somali" city but a "Muslim" one. The dominant language of the land and people it ruled (Somali) was not the administrative language (Harari/Adari) nor the spiritual language (Arabic).

Example; Djibouti is a Somali-dominated poly-lingual, poly-ethnic state today, similarly the official/adminjstrative languages does not include Somali but French and Arabic.

These reasons apply generally to all history as the examples they show.

I don't know why Amir Nur's family was recorded as ad-Dhuha Suha, but a hypothesis can be derived from the fact the record says he is Marehan, his father and grandfather reflect Marehan geneology, and the fact that his family name in Somali is the exact same translation as the recorded Arabic one.

2.On the issue of Hiraabe Goyta Tedros; I had previously explained that meaning of Goyta Tedrous and it's similarity to Hiraabe's family name of Rida-Amir in Marehan;
In Ge'ez derived Ethiopian Semetic languages

Goita = Gift of God
Tedros = Master/ Lord

Hiiraabe (and myself) are reer Rida-Amir

In Arabic
Rida = Gift of God
Amir= Master/Lord
What I did not know at that time was GOYTA was the highest title given by the Amir of Harar, and later by the Kingdom of Adal after they merged.

In fact, a Goyta was second only to Amiir and it was considerably higher than a Garaad!

Of course the irony here is we all overlooked the title of "Garaad" and just assumed it had Somali origins.

Well no, Garaad was not of Somali origins but a Harari title just like Goyta. The difference is Garaad was a relatively low title and widely applied since ever clan had to have a Chief (a Garaad). Because of this wide application where every Somali had a Garaad, Somalis natural adopted the title.

A Goyta was different. A Goyta was not widely applied and was a very high title; just below Amiir. There is only one Somali clan that was powerful enough to have a Goyta. This is why Somalis did not have time to adopt it, because it was very rarely applied and was very unique and particular to the government under Harar.

Also, a Goyta was not a political position like a Wasiir (advisor to Amiir), or an administrative position like Garaad (head of a group of tribal villages), but a Goyta was a combination of both of those things in a defensive/military capability. It was actually very similar to the European concept of DUKE (which even today is only below the Royal family and superior to all other titles in Europe). Conversely, a Garaad was essentially just a Baron.

Remember that Duke originates from the title of Dux in the Roman Empire. Basically it was a trusted General who was sent to lead a province and take all the Roman legions there under his command. It wasn't a military rank, but above it in that he was both the political and military leader of the province and not just a military commander.

Later, the European monarchies conferred "Duke" on the most powerful and wealthiest landowners with the largest number of banners who were expected to be the greatest source of defense in case of invasion. In many cases, Dukes were descendents of previous Kings as sons who could not become King were given Dukedoms.

Similarly, a Goyta was a supra political-military title conferred by the Amiir for the greatest possible defender of the city of Harar and of the Kingdom of Adal. In many cases, a Goyta in the city of Harar was the son of the Amiir and a number of Amiirs were Goyta before becoming Amiir.

Outside of the city of Harar, the Kingdom of Adal only conferred Goyta on someone who could protect the caravan/trade routes. To be able to do that, you obviously must have the strongest tribe, the most powerful militia, the greatest number of banners. You must be the manifestation of the King in his owm provinces!

Essentially you were what in Game of Thrones they called a "Warden of the East/West/North/South."

Exhibit A: Administration for Harar was organized this way;

Image

At the lowest end was Garaad who was an administrative agent of tribal village or related villages.

That was followed by a Dameen who supervised a Garaad or a group of Garaads.

That was followed by a Malaaq or Malak who managed one of the 5 divisions of Harar.

That was followed by a Goyta who was a Warden/Dux for defense.

Then the Amir capped that off as the Crown.

Exhibit B: Harar had 5 gates for defense. In charge of each Gate's defense was a Goyta who served both as key holder and commander.

Image

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Exhibit C; The last Harari dynasty was the Daud Dynasty.

The founder Ali bin Dawud was promoted from Malaaq/Malak to Goyta and then became a civil servant as a Wasiir. He became the next Sultan.

Similarly, one of his grandsons was a Goyta in charge of Harar's walls.

Image

Exhibit D; Harar was an interior city and access to sea trade was an existential issue. As a result, it conferred title of Goyta on those who can GAURANTEE the safety and access of caravan routes from the interior to the coasts.

In words this is modest, but what it really says who is the Harari definition of the Roman Dux!

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Who controls the most land? Who has the most banners? Who has control of the routes and access points? Very clearly this is why the traditional leader of the Marehan was a Goyta while all other tribal leaders was simply Garaad.

It is the biggest irony that what they thought was a insult is really simply just another expression of Marehan preeminence amonst the Somalis.

To bring this all together, there are a gazillion number of more examples including even in the Futuh where other Goyta are mentioned and who always function as carrying out the most important orders of the Imam.

Such as when the Imam announces declaration of war, he calls on Ahmed Goyta to raise the banners (first three tribes the Imam directs him to call on were Marehan, Geri, and Yabbare).

Or when the Imam wants the village of a traiter Garaad to be razed, he calls on Ibrahim Goyta to lead that aftack.

As for why it sounds like Amharic or Tigray, that's because the language of Harar was/is HARARI; a Semitic Ge-ez language very close to them.

In all three languages, Goyta is a title essentially meaning "Master/Lord."

Finally, I don't know where Tedros comes from, but just because we haven't yet come across it doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist. Personally I would wager Goita Tedros goes together and was a singular and unique Harari title for the Marehan leading family. It probably meant "Guardian's of the Realm" implying defenders of God's land as the translation implies.

The fact the family name in Marehan that has stuck since (Rida-Amir) has the exact same translation supports this possible theory.

Or Tedros could have been a simple nickname or even a name without any controversy for Hiraabe's father. After all, even today the Somali president is known by the Western non-Somali name of "Farmaajo" and not even his birth given Muslim name of Mohamed Abdullahi.

The moral is history is not math. In math, if 1 + 1 doesn't equal 2; then it doesn't exist. In history, there are a million different possibilities for why something was recorded one way.

The search goes one, but at least now we all have a better understanding of Harari political structure. :up:
Last edited by Voltage on Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by dalalos101 »

so Goyta is a title, makes sense walahi, I even asked Ethiopian friend and he told me Goyta means father or priest
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by Voltage »

dalalos101 wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:08 am so Goyta is a title, makes sense walahi, I even asked Ethiopian friend and he told me Goyta means father or priest
I will address this more broadly for you later including how Harar/Adal even came to confer the title of Goyta, but yes the direct translation of Goyta in Harari, Amharic, Gurage, Tigrinya (Ethiopic Semitic) is "Master/Lord."

And just like the English "Lord" it has both a spiritual/liturgical meaning (Our Lord Jesus Christ) as well as an earthly meaning (The nobility in the House of Lords).
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Re: 1935 German writing about Amhara views on Amir Nur; he is Darod/Marehan

Post by dalalos101 »

Voltage wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:31 am
dalalos101 wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:08 am so Goyta is a title, makes sense walahi, I even asked Ethiopian friend and he told me Goyta means father or priest
I will address this more broadly for you later including how Harar/Adal even came to confer the title of Goyta, but yes the direct translation of Goyta in Harari, Amharic, Gurage, Tigrinya (Ethiopic Semitic) is "Master/Lord."

And just like the English "Lord" it has both a spiritual/liturgical meaning (Our Lord Jesus Christ) as well as an earthly meaning (The nobility in the House of Lords).
the guy was tigrinya speaker but also amharic speaker and he said its like a sign of respect, the way he explained it is he could also even call his own father that but its mainly used for traditional leaders or like priest.
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