SomaliNet Forums

Voltage wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:48 am Politics and historical debates and that aside, Somalia should be prepared to honor the right to self-determination of Somalilanders.

I am sure Somalia will not let it go easily, but we must be prepared to accommodate that desire. It's simple as that.

However, as one of the few people from Somalia who is willing to defer completely to Somalilanders about the final outcome of our relationship, I also feel (and also know in the difficult negotiations that would finalize such a break up), the subject of SSC (not the whole regions but let's be real Dhulbahante and Warsangeli lands) will be bitterly contested and I do not foresee an eventuality where Somalia will compromise on Somaliland's right to self-determination while allowing pro-Somalia communities within it be muzzled.

It's 2020 where even Europe is apologizing for NEO-COLONIALISM let alone colonialism.

It would be a non-starter in my estimation for Somaliland to expect to break away with the old colonial border REVICTIMIZE communities who originally fought colonialism by holding them to that legacy.

In this juncture where negotiations for final settlement are not even being acknowledged and the issue is still unaddressed between Somalia and Somaliland; this is THE POINT BEFORE STEP 1.

Both camps are exceptionally hardcore and extreme in their positions but in a final negotiation, I definitely foresee the POSSIBILITY OF THREE (3) internationally observed referendumS carried out by a mutually agreed neutral partner before legal independence;

1.Referendum for Somaliland as a whole (if independence fails, it ends here) asking DO YOU WANT INDEPENDENCE

2. If Somaliland votes for referendum as a whole but SSC/Awdal communities return close vote or majority no, I forsee a 2nd targeted referendum for those groups asking DO YOU WANT UNITY

3. If agreement is reached at this point about independence (either somaliland goes as one or compromise is reached) then it is possible that Somalia will need a referendum to accept their government's decision----I say possible as I am entirely unsure about this...depends on how beholden gov is to people by then)

Obviously all Somalia nationalists are extreme now and all Somaliland nationalists are extreme yes, but when REAL final negotiations ever begin---not these fake talks going on for 5 years on and off about maalayacni----I predict hard compromises will have to be reached.

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 9#p4970880

Khalid Ali wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 am Religion should not be used against Somaliland. This pointless. There are over 50 Muslim countries. Just because people share the same faith doesn't mean they should have the same country government.

BigBreak wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:42 am Voltage I am sure your support for self determination is genuine and honorable I'll give you that but why should Somaliland have its territorial integrity violated as a "price" to remain independent and have our independence recognised by every other country including Somalia. Isn't it the case every country in Africa has its borders defined by their former colonisers so why should SL be different? Even Ethiopia by default has colonial made borders even though they are the only African country to have never been colonised

My compromise to Landers in the east that are Harti is to propose that while SL remains independent and has the same borders as the former British Protectorate, I propose the 3 Somali majority countries (Somalia, SL and Djibouti) completely open our borders towards each other's citizens and together we pool our sovereignty each so as to create a de facto loose confederation modelled on the European Union

Voltage wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:06 pm

BigBreak wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:42 am Voltage I am sure your support for self determination is genuine and honorable I'll give you that but why should Somaliland have its territorial integrity violated as a "price" to remain independent and have our independence recognised by every other country including Somalia. Isn't it the case every country in Africa has its borders defined by their former colonisers so why should SL be different? Even Ethiopia by default has colonial made borders even though they are the only African country to have never been colonised

My compromise to Landers in the east that are Harti is to propose that while SL remains independent and has the same borders as the former British Protectorate, I propose the 3 Somali majority countries (Somalia, SL and Djibouti) completely open our borders towards each other's citizens and together we pool our sovereignty each so as to create a de facto loose confederation modelled on the European Union

If that's the case, why haven't you already received recognition of your independence by "every other country" regardless of Somalia?

I mean this is the paradox with Somaliland hardliners.

1.YOU are already "considered" part of Somalia's "territorial integrity."
2. YOU are the one "violating" Somalia's "territori integrity."
3. YOU are the one whose " independence" forces a price out of Somalia's " territorial integrity."

All because you desire self-determination. The paradox is before you have even realized the goal, the world you have planned to create is OPPRESSIVE.

It is a paradox and an IRONY.

Buuhoodle functions independently/autonomously of Somaliland right this second.

But let's get to a larger point:

It is 2021; at some point rational minds will need to exercise their faculties and question what they think is "Truth."

1. Somaliland declared independence in 1991.
2. It js 2021 today.
3. Through Somalia's civil war, factionalism, isolation, terrorism, piracy, etc---no one recognized you.

The UN went from giving you "dual track" only to take even that back.

You want to know why?

It is so simple, I won't even highlight the reason.

You. Have. No. Legal. Basis. And. Even. More. Damningly. You. Can't. Feed. Yourself.

Is that clear?

That's literally the beginning, middle, and closing on the lie you have been led to believe for 30 years.

1. There is nothing legally binding, guiding, or backing the statement about being a "colony" and have a "case" for statehood.

2. It is actually the I. N. V. E. R. S. E. There is " encouragement" from OAU/AU to respect "final settlement", i. e. not attempt to seize, borders at the time of independence of a state.

3. Furthermore it is not part of a legal architecture, it is not binding and can't be argued for a case like recognition, it is a guiding "spirit"

You see this entire principle was never about ALLOWING like for "Somaliland;" it was always about PREVENTING things like "Ogaden War."

Once you get past that gross misunderstanding, you realize exactly flimsy your entire case was all along as shown by 0 recognition thus far

1.You don't have a religious, ethnic, or cultural case.
2.You were never seized but voluntarily joined in an act of union.
3. You are not self-sufficient nor even unified entirely on this matter.

And lastly, there is precedent everywhere that establishes the right of Buuhoodle's self-determination if you shall receive.

India and Pakistan united under British India, Cambodia and Vietnam united under French Indochina, etc are just some colonies that separated.

It is sort of ironic that your biggest argument is not even legally binding amd was intended for the inverse of your situation whereas Buuhoodle within Somaliland context actually has multiple legal precedents to lean on.

Now again, I am not like you or Somalia "nationalists" types; I do not have a rigid ideology on this and I am very accepting of the principle of Somaliland's right to self-determination.

All of Somaliland in whatever choice(s) they make.