Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in Red

Daily chitchat on Somali politics.

Moderator: Moderators

Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in Red

Post by Gubbet »

I like to check out the geneology updates from time to time to see if there is anything that might be interesting and when I saw the following, it was like a 💡 went off in my head!!

Image

It was the sign that said a QUESTION can now be asked that was missing relevant justification before


ARE T-CARRIERS IN FACT THE FABOLOUSLY DISAPPEARED FROM HISTORY (As a social group) SAHELIAN FUQARA WHO WERE HEAVILY PULLED TO THE RED SEA/DJIBOUTI/AFAR AREA BY THE OTTOMAN LANDING AND CAPTURE OF MASSAWA???

Everything makes sense

  1. In the 17th century the Ottomans capture Masawa for penetration into the interior. They decided not to after all and just declared a base called Habash Eyalet at the Masawa coast.

  2. There were no closer or warm ties that developed between the Eyalet and Harar.

  3. Similarly original Adal State groups with many geographical features named to them like Marehan seemed to have packed up and withdrew into the interior completely from present day Afar/Djibouti

  4. At the SAME TIME one of the most UNDERAPPRECIATED population movements in the history of East Africa was accurring overshadowed by the even greater Oromo population movement which had just taken place in Ethiopia

  5. This UNDERAPPRECIATED population movement is THE ENTIRE MIGRATION OF WAVES OF SAHALIAN FUQARAS FROM SUAKIN TO DARFUR TO CHAD CONNECTING EVEN ON THE WEST THROUGH THE SAHALIN CARAVAN ROUTES TO THE TUAREGS AND EVEN FULBE/FULANI

  6. Fuqara are what we know as XER, faqiir, caqiida...Sufi missionaries dotting kibuttz like settlements on oasis in the caravan route

  7. T is a feature that extends through out the trans Sahal all the way into even the Fulbe/Fulani

    ]*] When you look at the fact Dir, especially such prominent modern clans like CIISE and GUDABIIRSI inexplicable absence from Futuh or historical record during the pre-migration period

  8. And take into consideration Dir's religious and cultural historical role among Somalis, to this day being the institutions running Islamic missionaries (Xer) amd even that the religious title of FIQI is am adaptation of FUQARA

  9. In Conjunction with where the DIR HOMELAND IS, CENTERED AROUND THAT NORTHWESTERN MOST CORNER OF SOMALIS AT THE BAB EL MANDEB

  10. And the fact that they are overwhelming with T paternal origins which is so uniquely distinct from the majority of Somalis sharing E3b

  11. AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT ARE NOW SHARING IN SOME GROUPS A MOST RECENT COMMON ANCESTOR IN THE 300-400 years ago range


My friends this now deserves being asked with sufficient scientific basis whether this is in fact a possible theory with groundbreaking importance for Somali and horn ethnography.

I AM EVEN WILLING TO QUESTION WHETHER DIR'S PLACE IN THE CLAN SYSTEM IS LESS EXPLAINED BY MYTHICAL ORIGINS STORIES----

----AND MORE EXPLAINED BY A RELIGIOUS ROLE BLESSING THE NEW XEER SYSTEM FOR ORGANIZATION FOLLOWING THE DECLINE AND MOVE AWAY FROM HARAR AND THE SOMALI DISPERSAL INTO THE EASTERN AND NORTHERN DESERTS.


Somalis must have been a very laangaab people before then.
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

Also the biggest Fuqara center in the middle ages in the heart of the trans-Sahelian border with Nubia and Sudan was the area named after....

THE TEMPLE OF DERR!!!


Sbashi
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:05 am

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Sbashi »

Gubbet wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:56 am Also the biggest Fuqara center in the middle ages in the heart of the trans-Sahelian border with Nubia and Sudan was the area named after....

THE TEMPLE OF DERR!!!


Wow! :ohhh: :mindblown: :ooh:
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

Read the book by Bruce, you see how these migranta were swamping the entire red sea area and down to even Harar, Harawwa Valley up to Awaare area

This was in the 1700's

Image
Jabuutawi
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 am
Location: Federal Republic of Soomali-Galbeed Capital of Dira Dhabe

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Jabuutawi »

Dir maa so galeeti baa? Can you blame Awoowo T once he saw all those big booty women lined up at the shore? Any warm blooded man with lust in his heart would jump at the first opportunity at these women. He probably was headed to the New World but got distracted by the aforementioned big booty bubble butts 😔
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

Jabuutawi wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:15 pm Dir maa so galeeti baa? Can you blame Awoowo T once he saw all those big booty women lined up at the shore? Any warm blooded man with lust in his heart would jump at the first opportunity at these women. He probably was headed to the New World but got distracted by the aforementioned big booty bubble butts 😔
Jabuutaawi :lol:

You may be joking (and I am extremely happy to see you with this reaction considering the volatile reaction by some Somalis when it comes to historical theorizing), but as a Dir/Ciise man who has tested T y-dna; your thoughts are valuable and even encouraged on this subject.

As a matter of historical relevance or importance, what do you think about the intellectual basis for the hypothesis?

Does it seem justified? Are you even possibly intrigued? Surprised? Unimpressed?
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

Contacted by a historical researcher saying this is the best "adhoc" historical theorizing on this subject they have ever come across---and asking for a deeper account of the process that led me to his theory.

Beesha Direed, if this random topic ends up informing more about your origins than presumed, it was a pleasure. 8-)
Jabuutawi
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 am
Location: Federal Republic of Soomali-Galbeed Capital of Dira Dhabe

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Jabuutawi »

I am not much of a historian but lean towards science. And science says that my clade, non-native to Africa, came to the northern coast of Somalia 2,000 years ago (+-500) by way of SW Saudi Arabia. The land may have been devoid of people, but we were relatively new comers to the Horn. There is no such thing as 'Cushitic T'. Paternally we are not Cushites.

I would even hazard a guess and say the TMRCA of Ciise subclade is less than 1,000 BP. I find no interest in Dir's timeline. If truly there was recent commonality, I would have known by now. Ciise history mentions of no Dir in our lineage.

Ciise certainly was present during the Adal Sultanate and before then, Ifat, Absence of written evidence does not mean evidence of absence. I have oral history of people migrating out of coastal towns to the hinterland due to the constant bombardments from the Portuguese ships.

Equally, there are oral stories told about Oromo invasion into our lands right after the exhaustive centuries old wars with Abyssinia. There was particularly a ruthless Oromo chief and how he was slayed by an Ciise warrior. The whole premise of the war song 'Harimaadee' came about this time period.

Dr. Ali Mousse Iyeh of UNESCO wrote a book about what I just posted above: Le verdict de l'arbre : Le Xeer Issa : essai sur une démocratie endogène africaine

Also, Cabdillahi Xaaji Cusman Ceeleye wrote a book about our Xeer, watch it here:


Just because Westerners did not write the history doesn't mean history was not made.
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

am not much of a historian but lean towards science. And science says that my clade, non-native to Africa, came to the northern coast of Somalia 2,000 years ago (+-500) by way of SW Saudi Arabia.Arabia.
It does not say that. At all.

From this forum to Anthrogenica to other Somali forums like Somalispot, there seems to be a complete lack of substantiated evidence or understanding about "science" and what it informs about the presence of T in Africa.

I always come across two unsubstantiated assumptions just "taken" for scientific fact WHEN THERE IS ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE ASSUMPTION ESTABLISHED BY SCIENCE.

1. T is Eurasian.
2. T entered the Horn through Yemen.

I have seen zero evidence establishing even the subjective conjuncture of both of those assumptions.

It has been spread by two guys; Apollo from Somalispot whom I criticized in two topics here for his wrong understanding about genetic research and Zumale; neither of whom have any scientific basis for forming any assumptions about the science.
Jabuutawi
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 am
Location: Federal Republic of Soomali-Galbeed Capital of Dira Dhabe

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Jabuutawi »

Both of your bulleted points can easily be refuted by evidence, hypothesis and alternate theories.

Let us distinguish the parent clade (T-M184) from the downstream subclades. The parent clade (50,000 years old or thereabouts) origins can be argued ranged from the Caucasus Mountains all the way to the Eurasian Steppe. It is most diverse in this large swath of land. But that is useless information when it comes to decoding the 'Dir' subclade. Tens of thousands of years separates the parent clade from the 'Dir' subclade.

Let us be clear, unless you have irrefutable scientific evidence, no way this haplogroup is anything but a Eurasian.

Your second point is of less importance to me. How it got to Horn of Africa will be answered indirectly when more ethnicities take the test. There are various T subclades in Africa, not only in the Horn. You can find T carriers with the Lembe of Zimbabwe, Southern Cushites of Tanzania (Arusha region), Amharas, Eritreans, Egyptians, list goes on. Thus far, they all possess different T markers than the Somali T.

I seriously doubt the Somali T came down the Nile River with the proto-Cushitics people. More plausible case is it arrived from SW Saudi Arabia with transitory phase and no discernible genetic imprint in Yemen to the Somali Peninsula.

Btw, Zuumale is knowledgeable about this topic. I believe he is still active in Somalispot. Aaah, Somalispot, the forum for "Blonde" Somali bimbos. I truly enjoyed my time there with the airheads :lol:
User avatar
ReturnOfMariixmaan
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 7771
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:14 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by ReturnOfMariixmaan »

Jabuutaawi,

Can you post some screenshots of that book on Xeer Ciise. You should do a thread I’m quite curious now.
Gubbet
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6750
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Suspected & can now say say it; Dir newest/not oldest Somalis? T1= Sahel Fuqara (Chad-Darfur) sparked by Turks in

Post by Gubbet »

Jabuutaawi, forgive me, I don't think you understand "science" either.

Science is not about establishing theory based on the absence (as assumed) of competing plausibility

Science is about establishing theory based on the successful hypothesis of the plausibility in question.

Do you understand intrinsically what this means and why it is so important to nullifying the unscientific created assumptions about T1 in some Somali discourse?
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Politics - General Discussions”