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Does anyone if the Ciise or the Afar are the rightful owners of these disputed lands?

Why don't these towns organise their defences better.
They knew the Canfar were on the war path.....they should have their militias constantly guarding the approaches to their towns.

original dervish wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:21 am Why don't these towns organise their defences better.
They knew the Canfar were on the war path.....they should have their militias constantly guarding the approaches to their towns.

I don't think they have their own militias. These are poor unarmed people for the most part and they are being attacked by Afar Liyu police with the blessing of Addis Ababa. The Afar are convinced the land belongs to them and they even have different names for the towns. Gadameyto or something like that for Garbocisse for instance.

Many of the Ciise sub clans fighting on the front lines are absorbed Mx, the largest sub clan of Ciise is called Mamasan, origianlly Mamasame

Maamasame apparently is short for Mohamed Samed according to old Italian records sourcing historical Marehan sources

Gubbet wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:52 pm Maamasame apparently is short for Mohamed Samed according to old Italian records sourcing historical Marehan sources

Probably misheard it since they are probably the only tribe to hold that name

Gashireedle wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:04 pm

Gubbet wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:52 pm Maamasame apparently is short for Mohamed Samed according to old Italian records sourcing historical Marehan sources

Probably misheard it since they are probably the only tribe to hold that name, other than Ciise from French Somaliland

The Italian misheard it? I doubt. Maamasame is not phonetically alien any more say than "Aurarsame" (Hawrarsame) which is written on there and "probably misheard" is in general inappropriate as a response theory to historical record barring any evidence to substantiate it's implication. In other words, "probably misheard" has to be activated by inconsistency in what is being observed, it cannot just be suggested. It is like saying since there is no evidence, it's probably you are guilty. No, it is the inverse. If there is no evidence to implicate guilt, then it must be assumed they are innocent.

All of that is to say having put this to the test, the inference is more likely "Maamasame" is indeed a corruption of "Mohamed Samed." Mahmet or Maamed is a known corruption of Muhammed and even Somalis have implicated even more advanced corruptions regionally (Maadeey is Mohamed in Baidoa like Muudeey is Mohamud). In particular Mahamed Samed is a compound name which makes it all the more likely Maamasame could be a more advanced corruption out of the necessity of dispensing with more syllables than usual (Mah-ha-med-sa-med) or 5 to the usual 3 (Mah-ha-med). Meh-ha-med-sa-med to Ma-ma-sa-meh is probably the 1st stage of corruption (5 to 4) then over time Me-me-sa-me changed to Ma-ma-san (4-3). As time goes by it is possibly it would have gone from Ma-ma-san to Mam-saan or even Mah-Saan. (3-2).

It is like A-bu-Ba-Kar (4 syllables) which became A-bu-kar (3 syllables) to Abo/Obo-kar or Abii-kar (2 syllables) which in some places in Somalia especially the Banadiri is already advanced corrupted into IIKAR.

Gubbet wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:52 pm Maamasame apparently is short for Mohamed Samed according to old Italian records sourcing historical Marehan sources

“Every thing has been achieved except for the gods to rule; for no one is free save Jupiter.”
Aeschylus, Seven Against Thebes

Saddam, something similarly is going on with the "Waaqmaashe" of Rer Hassan today.

In that Italian diagram, Waaqmaashe is written "WaaqMAHADohi" (one who gives thanks to God or Ever Gracious). Very easily we can see Waaqmaashe is an advanced corruption of WAAQMAHADIYEH. Waaq-ma-had-di-yeh became Waaq-mah-di-ye going from 5 syllables to 4. Waaq-mah-di-ye then was brought down to Waaq-maa-she going down further from 4 to 3 syllables. We can see how Waaq-maa-she is currently in evolution to simply Waaq-maash (3-2 syllables).

It is similar to the town of Neefkuceliye of Reer Cismaan in Wardheer going from Neef-ku-cel-li-yeh down to Neef-ku-ce-li (5-4 syllables) to now being whittled down from Neef-ku-ce-li to Neef-ku-cesh'e in transition to Neef-ku-cesh (4-3.5-3 syllables) which I can theorize is headed to Neef-cesh (2 syllables).

One of the funniest things I have observed is the Sacad/Rer Jalaf of Caydiid young or old call "Wa-gar-dhac" by the whittled corruption of "Weer-dha." It is easy to surmise that Wa-gar-dhac being an importantly recurring name to them had to be concisely whittled to quicken the time needed to say the name so Wa-gar-dhac (3 syllables) is "Weer-dha" (2 syllables) much to the singular annoyance of my reer Ayeeyo.

Gubbet wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:49 pm Saddam, something similarly is going on with the "Waaqmaashe" of Rer Hassan today.

In that Italian diagram, Waaqmaashe is written "WaaqMAHADohi" (one who gives thanks to God or Ever Gracious). Very easily we can see Waaqmaashe is an advanced corruption of WAAQMAHADIYEH. Waaq-ma-had-di-yeh became Waaq-mah-di-ye going from 5 syllables to 4. Waaq-mah-di-ye then was brought down to Waaq-maa-she going down further from 4 to 3 syllables. We can see how Waaq-maa-she is currently in evolution to simply Waaq-maash (3-2 syllables).

It is similar to the town of Neefkuceliye of Reer Cismaan in Wardheer going from Neef-ku-cel-li-yeh down to Neef-ku-ce-li (5-4 syllables) to now being whittled down from Neef-ku-ce-li to Neef-ku-cesh'e in transition to Neef-ku-cesh (4-3.5-3 syllables) which I can theorize is headed to Neef-cesh (2 syllables).

One of the funniest things I have observed is the Sacad/Rer Jalaf of Caydiid young or old called call "Wa-gar-dhac" by the whittled corruption of "Weer-dha." It is easy to surmise that Wa-gar-dhac being an importantly recurring name to them had to be concisely whittled to quicken the time needed to say the name so Wa-gar-dhac (3 syllables) is "Weer-dha" (2 syllables) much to the singular annoyance of my reer Ayeeyo.

“I switch thugs into soldiers. Those that have given up on God to praise Jay-Hova (Damn!)” - Big Zoo

They the 1% we 99%… The absolute message of God. You get the reference:

People do not realize how PERSONALLY Gutterres possibly cares about the Somalia crisis. It still remains to be told just how much personal interest Guterres brought to bear on the Somalia situation that possibly contributed to the heavy UN reinvolvement under his tenure.

Gutterres wasn't some slick Western capitalist that found himself chosen to head the UN as an interference from powerful political allies like former French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde of IMF.

Guterres is a former socialist from Portugal who was head of the UNHCR (high commissioner of refugees) for 10 years with Somalia as the biggest refugee crisis. This guy was in Baidoa and Dollow back and forth during the Famine of 2011.

He was never going to sit and dilly dally with HSM in Mogadishu because he knows personally what he is.

It's not surprising he immediately went to go see Baidos where he spent most of his experience in Somalia during the 2011 famine

Gubbet wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:37 am People do not realize how PERSONALLY Gutterres possibly cares about the Somalia crisis. It still remains to be told just how much personal interest Guterres brought to bear on the Somalia situation that possibly contributed to the heavy UN reinvolvement under his tenure.

Gutterres wasn't some slick Western capitalist that found himself chosen to head the UN as an interference from powerful political allies like former French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde of IMF.

Guterres is a former socialist from Portugal who was head of the UNHCR (high commissioner of refugees) for 10 years with Somalia as the biggest refugee crisis. This guy was in Baidoa and Dollow back and forth during the Famine of 2011.

He was never going to sit and dilly dally with HSM in Mogadishu because he knows personally what he is.

It's not surprising he immediately went to go see Baidos where he spent most of his experience in Somalia during the 2011 famine

I know that’s why it is a new opening

Mamaasan is NOT Marehan however there are Marehan sub clans with a larger Ciise branch called Sacad Muuse. Harla Koombe and Marehan live with Sacad Muse and other Cise clans in the western frontier near the Afar.

Also, Ogaden clans who lived in between Issa and Afar were finally absorbed into the Afar sub clans.

There is also a place called DAL MAREXAAN in Sacad Muse territory.


Historically, Xeer Ciise assimilated the entire Cusbiyahan tribes in Galbeed. Cusbiyahan were the Eastern Somalis mainly Daarood who reached the far west in Issa territories.They eventually became part of Ciise because the Xeer Ciise was ONLY meant Ciise and their Cusbiyahan sheegads.

Warwaaq Libiyaan Xasan Gaashireedle
Warwaaq-jecle Raadamiir Amaanreer Isaaq Gaashiredle

Gubbet wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:37 am
Guterres is a former socialist from Portugal who was head of the UNHCR (high commissioner of refugees) for 10 years with Somalia as the biggest refugee crisis. This guy was in Baidoa and Dollow back and forth during the Famine of 2011.

He was never going to sit and dilly dally with HSM in Mogadishu because he knows personally what he is.

It's not surprising he immediately went to go see Baidos where he spent most of his experience in Somalia during the 2011 famine

.

Our peaple , especially yours in gedo region are starving to death , and you are more concerned who is meeting or not meeting with culusaw. Is it really important.