HOW DRESS CODE CAME ABOUT

[Galol]

I was sickened by a post which depicted two unknown young ladies who are no longer so unknown now due to the presumably unsolicited and unagreed exposure.

But I thought it warrants comment to go back and reflect on how this whole story of covering up women in Islamdom began.

Firstly there was the established culture. Muhammed was an aristocrat and as such had an interest in preserving the socio-economic status prevalent at the time. Hijab for the rich was part of that status quo.

Interestingly poor girls did NOT wear Hijab, known at the time as Chador, a Persian culture establsihed thousands of years earlier.

The prophet may have wanted to follow the culture: to keep aristocratic girls wearing the Hijab as protection from the eyes of the peasant hordes.

But all the evidence shows there were more personal reasons too. The prophet had dozens of young women in his harem; some say hundreds. Remember, we only know he was married to 11 but he had loads of slaves including little Juwairiyah who was 14 and unmarried. These girls do not count in the 11 accepted by Islamists.

So put yourself in the prophet's shoes. You are 50 something with dozens of pouting teenage brides, all possibly unsatisfied emotionally and perhaps, at the risk of being crude, in other ways too. Common human nature says you will worry. And the prophet never claimed to be anything but human. This is to his credit. I can't stand that chit Christians bore everyone to death about regarding his origins and idenity.

So Mo said the following "wives of the prophet..lower your gaze"

This is actually so beautifully human. A man in his 50s, with a whole clutch of pouting teenage brides trying his best to make sure he controls their, well, curiousity.

So intillially the Islamic Hijab only applied to the prophet's women. He developed it when he realised that his fears also fitted in with his reformist ideology of equlaity as well as with the normal Arab male insecurities of the time. If it were good enough for the prophet's women, it were good enough for all women. This shattered the original situtaion where ONLY the daughters of the aristocracy covered up their girls as imported from Persia. Now anybodys' girls should cover up - a sop to equality, no matter how disingenous.

What does this show us? a clever prophet? Yes. Human prophet? Absolutely. Scared prophet? No doubt. Insecure prophet? obvious.

But what else can we learn from this? The plain. The obvious. The unmistakable.

[SomaliLight]

[quote]What does this show us? a clever prophet? Yes. Human prophet? Absolutely. Scared prophet? No doubt. Insecure prophet? obvious.[/quote]


Galol, I suggest you don't waste your thoughts on these donkeys, yes the prophet was a man and a man with all male characteristics. Let the Mohammed idolists pray at his grave and say his name everytime they mention their Allah's.

[Rampage]

It was infact suggested by one of the Prophets companions; the hardcore Omar bin Khattaab peace and mercy be upon him.

[Galol]

Somalilight

Wonderful.

Ramapge

I heard that sory too. I like Omar( I hope Rebel is not watching). He was intelligent, visionary, ambitious and many other things. But he was overall a disturbed man - violent, misogynistic and haunted by truly evil past. Was his advice wise? Was it in fact given or was it an excuse by the prophet? And if it were given should he have listened to a man with such colourful charcter even by the standards of the day?

[The rebel]

Galol,

I admire Umar Acually he was the rebel and i like that part of his personality and he made up his own rules/changed/edit what he wanted. I may disagree with him but he was the only one who was thinking that time. I mean the only one who was using his brain

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Rampage"]It was infact suggested by one of the Prophets companions; the hardcore Omar bin Khattaab peace and mercy be upon him.[/quote]

That is true. There is Sahid Hadith (Bukhari I think) where Khattab is with Mohammed. A woman passes by, who I think wasn't dressed 'modestly' enough for his liking, and he suggests to Mohammed that muslim women in the future cover up. Shortly afterwards, after of course a moment of Zen inspiration, bolts of lightening and miracles by Allah (dispatching Gabrial), the 'VERSE' from Allah regarding muslim women covering up is 'revealed.'

[SomaliLight]

[quote]That is true. There is Sahid Hadith (Bukhari I think) where Khattab is with Mohammed. A woman passes by, who I think wasn't dressed 'modestly' enough for his liking, and he suggests to Mohammed that muslim women in the future cover up. Shortly afterwards, after of course a moment of Zen inspiration, bolts of lightening and miracles by Allah (dispatching Gabrial), the 'VERSE' from Allah regarding muslim women covering up is 'revealed.'[/quote]Dhuuse_deer

It is always interesting how the verses come conviently when the prophet needs it,and that all practices such slavery, looting and polygamy are never adressed as they were inconvience to his friends, instead they become charitable things to do rather than compulsory for his ummah.Infact, you can find serveral hadiths appartently from the prophet condemning the slave runaway to hell, along with woman who wear pants and other absurd things.

[dhuusa_deer]

^^^Very true. My favourite is the injection limiting muslim men to only 4 wives but it was OK for mohammed to have 11 wives and innumerable concubines and sex slaves (one such sex slave, a christian copt, bore mohammed a child).

Another one is the verse decreeing sex with captured women after battles 'divinely ordained.' ONLY after some of the companions complained that the muslim fighters were away from their women too long and craving for ceeb. How convenient to have sex with captured women to be ordained by the one and only Divine Entity!

[SomaliLight]

dhuusa_deer

[quote]How convenient to have sex with captured women to be ordained by the one and only Divine Entity! [/quote]



yeah, his buddies, they pushed for alot more, such as sex during mensturation, and during ramadan, but even the humanly biased allah must draw the line somewhere

[Galol]

DD

"craving for ceeb"

Lol. I never heard the verb `craving' used in this context before. Life-affirming it is to discuss with intelligent people.

The craving, for you know what, is what drives Man to do all the things that Man does: war, ideology, technology, Science, invention, art excellence.

God has great sense of humour but he chose well. The reward is worth it.

[The Law26]

Islam-haters led by Galol, look at the Quraan and see what it says.


Al Qur'an 24:33


32
And marry those among you who are single (i.e. a man who has no wife and the woman who has no husband) and (also marry) the Salihun (pious, fit and capable ones) of your (male) slaves and maid-servants (female slaves). If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His Bounty. And Allah is All-Sufficent for His creatures' needs, All-Knowing (about the state of the people).

33

And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

34
And indeed We have sent down for you Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) that make things plain, and the example of those who passed away before you, and an admonition for those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).


Below is the English translation written by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and he has this footnote right after the mentioned verses.

2991. The law of slavery in the legal sense of the term is now obsolete. While it had any meaning, Islam made the slave's lot as easy as possible. A slave, male or female, could ask for conditional manumission by a written deed fixing the amount required for manumission and allowing the slave meanwhile to earn money by lawful means. Such a deed was not to be refused if the request was genuine and the slave had character. Not only that, but the master is directed to help with money out of his own resources in order to enable the slave to earn his or her own liberty.


2992. Where slavery was legal, what is now called the -white slave traffic" was carried on by wicked people like 'Abdullah ibn Ubai, the Hypocrite leader at Madinah. This is absolutely condemned. While modem nations have abolished ordinary slavery, the "White Slave Traffic" is still a big social problem in individual States. Here it is absolutely condemned. No more despicable trade can be imagined.


2993. I have translated "In" (literally, -if") by -when- because this is not a conditional clause but an explanatory clause, explaining the meaning of 'force'. -Forcing" a person necessarily means that it is against the wish or inclination of the person forced. Even if they were to give a formal consent, it is not valid.

2994. The poor unfortunate girls, who are victims of such a nefarious trade, will yet find mercy from Allah, whose bounties extend to all His creatures.

Above source come from Quraan translations by Yusuf Ali

Prophet Mohamed pbuh said;

"The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives."

[Narrated in Mosnad Ahmad, #7354, and Al-Tirmizi, #1162]

As usual, you athiests are dead wrong in your understanding of the Sura of modesty. Moreover, neither one of you has the audacity to mention its genuine historical relevancy. Pagans outnumbered others (whethere Muslims or not) in Mecca, and their women wondered around in top-less like many “primitive” cultures today do. Lastly, let me you give you a tip and tell you that you can’t understand the Quraan by picking an Ayat out of context, it has to be understood as a whole within the context of the preceding or following Ayats.

[Galol]

Law

Why bore us with these (very) selective quotes? You are a smart lad and you and I know you are no Literalist. So why the charade? Who are you trying to impress since clearly it is not yourself?

You know what Islam is and BTW, I resent being called an "Islam hater".

I do not hate Islam I despise it! Which adjective is stronger I never quite understood. Funny lingo that English.

Just kidding.

Do you want me to take those claims apart? And why do I feel this is a loaded post - that you DO want me to take them apart?

Look Law, Allah suks. Islamism suks. Islam sucks. You know it and I know it. So why the pretense? Forget the criticisms of democracy and Adam Smith and secularism and voltaire and all that palaver. We can talk about the lot if you like.

But this is not about comparative studies of the horror genre. An imperfect system does not give a barbarity a more acceptable face.

So what is your claim to intellectual credibility on behalf of Islam here? That other ideas are also flawed? Of course they are!

So what else?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="The Law26"] it has to be understood as a whole within the context of the preceding or following Ayats.[/quote]

Agreed. Context is important... especially when dealing with 1400+ yr old texts. I only wish YOU do the same. That YOU read your religion in the CONTEXT of the 21st century. In the age of the Googlepedia, Pentium Infinity of knowledge, globalization, space travel and nanotechnology...so NANO you can't see it, only believe it. Is it morally wise then to pray:

1. 5 times per diem facing a country where women can't drive
2. a country where women must walk around wearing funny customes
3. a country where a dying Hindu/Philipino guest worker can't get blessings from his priest/religious head on his last few hours left on earth

Is it wise, in the context of the 21st century to have APOSTATE laws, possession of the right hand laws (sex with slaves), killing the slave of your slave's murderer, darul Islam and harb, infibulation, lapidation, jizya tax, inequality -- both spiritual and gender etc.

[LionHeart-112]

Galol...I see you are desperately trying to win hearts and minds for dark side. Too bad , not even the dumbest, most ignorant person would not believe anything you utter.

Hijab is required by Allah (swt) in the Holy Qur'an. All Muhammad (scw) did was enforce. It's simple as that.

I have said it before and i iwll say it again, for some1 who doesn't care about Islam you sure do spend lots of time thinking about it and discussing it. Get a life old fart.