IS ISLAM THE LONG TIME SOLUTION?

[TZ Somali]

Its almost two decades since civil war broke out in Somalia, two decade of absolute chaos, carnage, political and tribal dispute that has engulf our country is still in active operation.

The effects of war on the nation is quite visible, hundreds of thousands of Somalis have been displaced while countless fell victims to the senseless attributes of a war that lack a definite purpose.

Somalia’s cities lies in ruin resembling mid-evil ghost town, its political system and cultural establishment has failed to withstand the power and pressure of tribal politics that has been the central to Somalia’s chaos since the ousting of the late brutal dictator Siyat Barre in 1991.

With the current tribal and political establishment in Somalia there is no light in the end of the tunnel. In a culture where those who make political compromise to their opponent for the sake of the welfare and peace of the masses are seen or label as traitor and any political concession is seen as accepting defeat no wonder Somalia has been renegade from world map for almost two decades.

We have gone through a lot of political changes from the brief introduction of democracy and its values during early 1960s by the late president Abdirashid to the brutal and repressive communist regime of the late president Siyat Barre that followed: is my view its time to embrace Islam as our governing system.

Islam is the main faith for Somalis although its second to tribalism in terms of the influence its has over the Somalis masses. Islam in my views is the only solution to Somalia’s chaos; this is due to the fact unlike other governing system where laws and legislation are engineer by individuals with different agendas, Islam is a complete set of rules and regulation design to guide Muslims to better lives our life.


I will like people to share their view on the above subject!

[Gacalisa]

yes its true that only Islam can be a solution to this horrid long term sitioution in somalia. and for so long any person or persons that wanted to be a legit ruler or leader for somalis swore by Quran to do good, and these are the same people that are ruining the nation.

so how can one expect to any thing, when promises are broken easily. with somalis there is always a loop hole to get out off, and to use, so they will always find a reason, and use Islam to backit up as a source, as they do when families kill one another.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="TZ Somali"] Islam in my views is the only solution to Somalia’s chaos; this is due to the fact unlike other governing system where laws and legislation are engineer by individuals with different agendas, Islam is a complete set of rules and regulation design to guide Muslims to better lives our life.[/quote]

It would be a colossal mistake if somalis turned to Islam was way out of their current difficulties. Islam where tried couldn't, systimatically, deliver. What's more there is no reason or evidence to suggest it will. It's entirely the product of wishful thinking that induces 'ISLAM IS THE SOLUTION' yearnings.

A paved road, one tested and resiliant, leads the way to redemption city for Somalis. It is capatilist/democratic road guided by secular/humanist ideals. Much of humanity's welfare depends on the fruits borne out of their endeavors. Be it in life enhancing/saving drugs or technology that makes life livable. Why not adopt what is good from the West... no wholesale shedding of indegenous culture or embrace of foriegn culture. What is unislamic/unsomali about clean drinking water, good education and healthcare systems, competent governance

Discuss

[Gedo_Boy]

Hey don't dis Islamic solutions.....religious ppl in Somalia are the only ppl who have been helping or providing crucial services to ppl and providng the only safety net that ppl have had. The non-religious politicians/warlords have been the worst and most treacherous to the Somali ppl exploiting even tragedies to turn a profit

look pal capitalism only works for the ppl who writes the rules...Islam pioneered all sorts of economic/social advances from checks/credit to university institutions to scientific discovery....capitalism hasn't even stood the test of 200 years and is on the verge of collapsing on its own weight. Empires & Monarchies lasted much longer than that. Maybe your grandparents were advocating communism or socialism 40 years ago. many more ppl were hurt by capitalism than helped by it. And don't bring me the example of Japan b/c the US was scared of another military resurgence if it didn't ensure Japan's success..... little black boys in 3rd world countries have no such guarantees

I'm sure ppl in the heyday of the Roman Empire were advocating empire was the only way to go.

If you get into that capitalism trap you will be just like the rest of the African countries who privatized their whole countries to Euro/American corporations on cheap loans to corrupt rulers who stashed the $$$ in Swiss accounts and left the country paying for a debt it has repaid many times over but is still paying due to interest <------ see why interest is xaram?

And then they have a conference on whether to forgive African debt after getting 10X their principle back.

look at the civil war perpetrated by profiters of diamonds in Sierra Leone (deBeer's), look at the oil in Nigeria (Shell) where they just destroyed the Delta lands with oil spills......and who gets rich ALL the time!

a few Somalis with a undergrad or master's degree level of economic theory is not enough to set the country straight and prevent it from being exploited...........WE NEED ALLAH AND ISLAM and then whatever beneficial knowledge we can get.

but you have to be careful b/c a car is not xaram, education or technology is not xaram, but the financial development and fiscal policies of the country MUST BE 100% ISLAMIC to insure success.

the Prophet (pbuh) taught that interest-based transactions must be avoided (istaqfurallah). The Islamic Empire flourished when we adhered to the transaction guidelines of Islam and was the cause for introducing such unkown financial advancements as checks, xawala and credit-based transactions. It's funny cause everything else is just a high-tech variant of that.

[salafi_student]

Islam is the sole solution for all mankind not only Somalia!

With Islamic law or with out DD you'll never be allowed to come back (until you repent)....So is pointless for you to get involved discussing it....




.

[Gedo_Boy]

yeah secularism/humanism has made the world a more liveable place if you are the top 5% of the world

if you are not the millions upon millions of ppl killed & ravaged by World Wars, civil wars, Vietnam War, Korean War, Iran-Iraq War, and all the other wars that have been fought this century

20% of the world controls more than 80% of the world's resources.....and there are ppl dying/starving all over the world

what has capitalism done except exploit them?

the truly successful/influential countries are the ones that come up w/ a homegrown solution to the problems, not blind importation of ideas that are meant to trick you into selling yourself out.

Somalia needs ppl who understand science, technology, economics, but we have to sift the good from the bad and develop our own hybrid economic system with our own ingenuity......I don't support privatization to foreign investors b/c then the whole country's foreign policy is dicated by the ppl in the West who just happen to have the money right now.....and money will never trickle down to the poor b/c the greedy capitalists will have control of policy........

China didn't enter capitalism until it was ready and even now a lot is state-owned, and now they are on the verge of becoming the next superpower

[COOL-MAN]

Excellent points gedo-boy.

I was wondering why peopl, africans in particular are not asking themselves what has the introduction of capitalism and democracy done for them over the last 50 years or so?? not only somalia but even the citizens of the so called stable governments in africa are dwindling in abject poverty save southafrica, everybody knows why south africa is streets ahead of it is neighbours ( south african was and still is white man run country and therefore no problems adjusting to the white mans system). . in all honesty africans in general were better off gorverning themselves along well established system ran by council of elders when they were walking naked and tending to their cattles without outside disturbances. atleast then starvation and exploitation were non existent and every one had something to eat from either subsidies earned from substance farming or cattle/camels/goats rearing. they were self reliant on all fields, traditional medicine-men worked perfectly for them. the white man came in and dismantled their way of life and forced them to adopt a new one which was totally diffrent from theirs. i.e greedines, divide and rule, spying on others, individualism, perscustion etc.

remeber some of these africans systems existed thousand of years before anybody had a sniff of what the white man was like and when the said white man was in deep poverty himself.

minor examples of where islam went

In spain- where islam went in europe first= ask kamal35 the development and scietific advancement islam took there


In damascus and surounding areas where is islam led the world from once= the governers of all the provinces run by this once beutifull and flourishing empire returned money sent to them from the capital (damascus then) to where it came from because people had enough in their treasury compare this to provinces in africa. thier people have nothing to begin with, what their repsective governments allocates for them is not enough and are asking for more evreytime they recieve the meagre resource sent which in most cases ends in the pockets of ungodly democratically elected leaders.

And those are few examples.

In a society run by practising muslims poverty is unknown since the rich believes all wealth belongs to Allah and follows his command to feed the poor. no corruption since everyone knows any penny they earn is accountable to Allah. no killing an innocent life because for a practising believer, the killing of one innocent soul is equivallent to killing all humankind . no ripoffs informs of interests because interset is fobiden in islam in the first place. no discrimination against one's colour since all people are equal in islam and in the eyes of Allah except with piety. blacks pray shoulder to shoulder to whites and likewise for the poor and the rich. sex before marriage is xaraam which is a solution to the spread of aids and other stds. thiefs get their hands chopped which deters thiefs from doing their acts. poligamy is allowed. no reason to cause unnecessary strain to one's wife by cheating in their back and keeping concubines. people shy away form materailistic mentality because what is in store for them in the hereafter is far greater than the glittering materialistic which is nothing but deception AND DISTRUCTION. kate moss and a long list of celebrities are living prove money and material ain't everything

AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE

IMRACE ISLAM IS TO EMBRACE PEACE AND PROGRESS. SAY NO DEMOCRACY AND GREED AND EXPLOITATION OF THE WEAK

Allahu akbar.

[Caydid]

I think islam is the best solution for somalia for the simple reason that it could be the only alternative to tribalism. But do we have somalis who fit into the description of being a muslim?

[San_dheer]

I never thought I’d find myself saying this but Islam is and will be the only solution for Somalia, if the TFG continues in its current disgraceful manner. The only thing Somalis need from a future government is peace and stability and an Islamic government will ensure that. Those warlords are criminals and should be treated as such.

[AMAT-ALLAH]

^Why is that San-dheer that you never thought you'd find yourself saying Islam is the only solution for Somalia?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Gedo_Boy"]Hey don't dis Islamic solutions.....religious ppl in Somalia are the only ppl who have been helping or providing crucial services to ppl and providng the only safety net that ppl have had. [quote]


Did I say religious ppl aren't or shouldn't provide social services. You have to make an arguement why ONLY religious folks and not secularists.



[quote]look pal capitalism only works for the ppl who writes the rules...[quote]

Really? Lets look at the reality of the world's premier capatilist state, the US. More than 70% of all US millionaires have NO college degree. And less than a third of them inhereted their wealth. This means the overwhelming majority of them came from poor and uneducated backgrounds. So much for only the privilaged enjoy slice of the pie.



[quote]capitalism hasn't even stood the test of 200 years and is on the verge of collapsing on its own weight. [quote]


Absolutely astonishing. Capatilism is on the verge of collapsing? Where? Get your head out of the sand and take a sober look around: capatilism is thriving and gaining foothold in newlands in unabated pace. The thirst for democracy and capatilism is growing.



[quote].. little black boys in 3rd world countries have no such guarantees[quote]

And who's fault is that? The guardians of little black boys of course.



[quote]If you get into that capitalism trap you will be just like the rest of the African countries who privatized their whole countries to Euro/American corporations on cheap loans to corrupt rulers who stashed the $$$ in Swiss accounts and left the country paying for a debt it has repaid many times over[quote]


Capatilism passed the test of providing both material and nonmaterial well being for its citizens. Its outcomes vary among countries but all things being equal capatilism AND democracy has lifted MORE ppl out of poverty than ANY OTHER SYSTEM. Take a look at India and China! Second, democracies have safety guards in place that catch crooks with their hands in the cockie jar. Another advantage of capatilism and democractic systems.



[quote]look at the civil war perpetrated by profiters of diamonds in Sierra Leone (deBeer's), look at the oil in Nigeria (Shell) where they just destroyed the Delta lands with oil spills..[quote]


Wars are in progress in Africa where there are NO natural resources, so what gives? Inept and corrupt local officials. That is where the blame lies.


[quote]a few Somalis with a undergrad or master's degree level of economic theory is not enough to set the country straight and prevent it from being exploited..[quote]


Why not?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Gedo_Boy"]yeah secularism/humanism has made the world a more liveable place if you are the top 5% of the world[quote]

And what would make the rest of the world more livable for the remaining 95%? Islam? But it can't even produce a SINGLE decent country. Secular/humanist countries provide the best living standards for their citizens, Islamic/theoracratic nations don't. Period.



[quote] ....and there are ppl dying/starving all over the world[quote]

Correction: ppl are dying and starving where democracy and capatilism aren't practiced.


[quote]what has capitalism done except exploit them?[quote]


India, China, Brazil just to name a few.


[quote]the truly successful/influential countries are the ones that come up w/ a homegrown solution to the problems, not blind importation of ideas that are meant to trick you into selling yourself out.[quote]

That is just dumb suggestion. What is the solution to poverty? Employment. How do you create employment? By creating jobs. By investing, lowering taxes, creating private sector etc ... all capatilism ideas.



[quote]China didn't enter capitalism until it was ready and even now a lot is state-owned, and now they are on the verge of becoming the next superpower[/quote]

Wrong again. China embraced capitalism not when it was ready but when it HAD to.

[TZ Somali]

Im suffice to say although is Islam to some extent is my preferencial soultion to somali's political and cultural quagmire, but Dhusa deer's analysis have a merit. if we adopt Islam as the only solution without integrity other positive feature that political system such as capitalist offers then given the sphysic of average religiously Somali male/female alike is founded in spousing the radical version ISlam....then there is ernomously risk that there will be taleban like regime that is founded in ignorance rather than true value of ISlamic norms....

[Gedo_Boy]

dhusadheer, all i am saying is that you can't say democracy is the only thing that has stood the test of time......maybe it's on the verge of collapse like communism was but you just don't know it yet b/c it hasn't collapsed yet.

wars have been fought and they are still being fought.....do you honestly believe the war in Iraq was fought for freedom or to "capitalize" on the large oil reserves for capitalistic purposes?the amount of money spent each year by US defense budget could eliminate poverty worldwide yet it is not being done b/c that is not "profitable"

what makes a healthy and vibrant economy? ofcourse competition does but that doesn't necessarily mean capitalistic........the India, China, Brazil that you mention are improving b/c of large technical advancements and industrial capacity and that means an educated workforce. This can be done w/ education & hard work.....

you provide examples of capitalism that work and the many more that fail you wave off as failing for some other reason other than capitalism.....

when you see Made in China or Made in Taiwan that means their economy benefits from that industry and they can be capitalistic or communist, it just means they produce goods the world wants to buy and that's what makes you prosperous.

all the Muslim countries are not practicing Islam properly so you can't discredit religion.....far more ppl have died due to secular wars than religious ones.....

all these buzzwords don't necesarily mean capitalism and any economic model can accomodate it. Please look at the history of humanity, everything from kingdoms, empires, communism, dynasties were once prosperous....there are ups and downs......civilizations rise and fall so please broaden your vision to something beyond the last 100 years.

creating jobs: an economy that produces goods services ppl want.
privatization: privatize within the country with no significant foreign control
education: education will produce innovation
merit: funny how captialistic corporations deal/fund/support the most repressive dictatorial regimes on earth.....what's good for them not necesarily good for you.


do you know about all the corporate frauds and crimes that occur everyday by major corporations in the US....MCI WorldCom, Tyco Intl, Enron, HealthSouth and on and on.....

you wanna talk about privatization and globalization.....did you see what happened to the Dubai Ports World deal in America?

[Gedo_Boy]

TZSomali,

all I am saying is Islam IS tolerant of education, commerce, and everything else. It's not a fight between prosperity and Islam, Islam IS prosperity.

we should avoid ideas and concepts that directly go against Islam, other than that may the best ideas prevail......that is what you call a free market economy.....the Prophet (pbuh) never advocated controlling the business market or interfering with how business is conducted AS LONG AS it wasn't haram......

we should have an education, merit-based economy BUILT ON solid Islamic principles.....that's all.

to give you an example, the pornography & alchohol industry are big economic elements, but just cause they are good for the economy doesn't mean they are good for the country.......