what is this TREND OF ATHEISM among SOMALIs (DD&Galol)

[Homer Simpso]

Poineers of Somali Etheism include Galool and Ayaan Hersi Ali and I though that would be all.. two are enough for big fella called HELL.. but I keep coming across alotta other somalis who claim to be an atheist and crave for a discussion with me about Islam and believe in Allah!!!!!!! the sad this tho is that these very same people have been invested by their parents to learn the Quran, the Hadith and all the neccesarry schooling for our beautiful religion.... eventho these guyz were given all the care they required when they were a kid, they decided to become an atheist because the most people of the west are atheists...I cannot still figure out what made them to be an atheist.. I really want to discover that is why I am initiating this thread......

is it becuase we have done somethig wrong to you guyz (atheists, like Galool and Dhuusedheere)?
is it because you want to be popular among western friends?
it is because you are just weak?


or the most important question:::... from Texas to California, I came across alotta white rednecks who converted to Islam because they saw how united we are, how beautiful and truthful our religion is.. so people are coming to the religion in these trouble times.. didnt this give you a proud feeling of belongingness to a sincere religion?

[Luckyy]

< suprized u make sense some times

[Luckyy]

shoot

[ERROR]

i didn't know Ayan was an ethiest. She just hates Islam but I never heard she dosn't believe in God. Being non-muslim doesn't mean atheism.

[Basra-]

Ayan Hirsi is a reformist, not an atheist.Galol & DD are atheists.

[Homer Simpso]

no no.. Ayaan is also atheist.. I have watched an interview she gave.. she really is an atheist.... she said she doesnt believe in God or anyone sent by God.. she believes in herself and the nature.... if that aint atheist,, than i am missing something!!!...

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Homer Simpso"]Poineers of Somali Etheism include Galool and Ayaan Hersi Ali[quote]


@ Galol n A. Hirsi pioneers of Somali atheism

I fell off the chair from laughing so hard!




[quote]two are enough for big fella called HELL [quote]


What hell?

BTW, if there is such place as hell and muslims ACTUALLY believed it, they wouldn't be hating and killing each other. No?



[quote] .. eventho these guyz were given all the care they required when they were a kid, they decided to become an atheist because the most people of the west are atheists..[quote]


We call that Non Sequitur.... your conclusion -- we became atheist BECAUSE most ppl in the West are atheists (which is not true!!!) -- doesn't follow from your premise or any of the preceding arguements you've made. The truth is there are atheists who are non-Western (chinese for example), there are Western atheists AS WELL AS theists, there are religions that are ATHEISTIC like Budhism since they don't believe in ANY deity.

So, you wanna try again. This time think through your reasoning and for god sakes use google to get your facts straight. Most Westerners believe in some form of God... they're just secular, not atheists.




[quote]I really want to discover that is why I am initiating this thread.[quote]


There is nothing to figure out. We've simply evolved too fast for the rest of you. You're Homo Barbaricus, we're evolved into Homo Civilicus.

[michael_ital]

quote Homer " they decided to become an atheist because the most people of the west are atheists..."

Do you mean kufaars? Because most Western's believe in God. Very few are atheist. Unless you have #'s for that.

[Homer Simpso]

its not about the west Dhuusedheere.. its about you.... why are you atheist?...

you were born and raised as a muslim... what I cannot believe is, that you have changed all this based on few books you read!!!.... its just beyond my understanding... for instance, I have been reading the qu'ran since i was a kid (since I could read).. my dad and mom are muslim, all my family and everything that sorounds me is Muslim.. its something I trust so much.. on the other hand, you read a phylosophical books.. you started reading these as you came to the west.. I bet it didnt take 3 books to even change you... you became an atheist after reading the first or the second book...... what I dont understand therefore is how can you leave something you trusted all your life, something written by God, for something written by an idiot called Benedict Spinoza or other phylosophy guyz..... doesnt this mean you are too weak for influences!!!!.. how can you be so betrayal?.....

answer the question and do not stray from the path ok... dont tell me go to google or something.. that is not a good way to skip the answer DHUUSe...... DHUUSADDA kuugu dhagtay Illaah baankaaga baryee!!!.. answer the questions

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Homer Simpso"] why are you atheist?...[quote]


God (of most world religions) doesn't exist, therefore I don't believe in God.



[quote]what I cannot believe is, that you have changed all this based on few books you read!!!....[quote]


Again, your unfounded and unsupported leaps of judgements speak volumes of your short comings. How did you confer from what I've written on Snet that BOOKS were the reason I adopted atheism?



[quote]its just beyond my understanding... [quote]


I know it is but it's self inflicted injury... ditch magical thinking and your understanding will improve markedly.


[quote]I bet it didnt take 3 books to even change you... you became an atheist after reading the first or the second book..[quote]


Where are you getting all of this? You know you can simply ask me how I became an atheist.




[quote]what I dont understand therefore is how can you leave something you trusted all your life, something written by God, [quote]


I tell you how. I THINK FOR MY SELF. The great appeal of religions is they simplify life and world into sets of 'dos' and 'donts' that is otherwise very complex requiring thinking and personal decision making. When you're part of a group you feel protected and unexposed... don't have to think for your self. You need a babysitter, someone to hold your hand through life... I more realistic and don't.



[quote]for something written by an idiot called Benedict Spinoza[quote]


Your lack of erudition is telling above... Spinoza BELIEVED in God, HOW can I believe him and be an atheist.



I'm out

[Homer Simpso]

holly smokes.. I give up... hell man... tell me what made you become an athiest.... why is it a tough question>///


and yes Spinoza was an atheist... the guy who believed in God was Decartes and he proved that when he talked about body and mind!!!....

you dont even know who is who do you.... I am gonna drop my conversation with you if you tell me again that Spinoza was not an atheist... he was a jew who fled from Spain and sought refuge in the Netherlands... he was denounced continously by both the churches and the synagogue because he kept questioning about the existance of God.. just like

[Homer Simpso]

I have read all these phylosophical books over the years, from Spinoza, to Descartes, from Peter Singer to Plato.. al the acient Greek guyz... I read them over and over again.. but I have never ever thought to change or denounce my religion... Have I got strong mind?.. perhaps yes comparing to you!!!... my advice to all somali young people is... do not read this stuff if you think your faith is a bit weak!!!!....

[Homer Simpso]

yes shut the f'ck up!!!

[dhuusa_deer]

This kid is funny.


Homer said: "and yes Spinoza was an atheist.."


I told you Spinoza wasn't an atheist, he believed in God. Today we call his type Pantheists... Pantheists believe eternal God that is the sum total of all the natural laws.


Here are somethings Spinoza believed (I used Google! Took only 15 secs):


Spinoza begins by describing what can be known about God. God is infinite being, according to Spinoza. God is infinite substance, consisting of infinite attributes, each of which expresses God’s eternal and infinite essence (I, Prop. XI).1

God necessarily exists, argues Spinoza, because God’s essence is existence. God’s essence is perfect, and therefore God's perfection implies that God must exist. God’s essence and existence are the same (I, Prop. XX). Each attribute which expresses God’s essence also expresses God’s existence.

According to Spinoza, infinite substance is indivisible (I, Prop. XIII). If infinite substance were divisible, it could either be divided into two finite parts, which is impossible, or it could be divided into two equally infinite parts, which is also impossible. Thus, there is only one infinite substance.

Since God is infinite substance, Spinoza argues, no attribute which expresses the essence of substance can be denied of God (I, Prop. XIV). Every being has its being in God. Nothing can come into being or exist without God.

According to Spinoza, the will and the intellect are modes of thought. The will is the same as the intellect. In God, intellect is actual and not potential, because in God intellect is fully actualized. This means that things must necessarily occur in the manner in which they occur, because the intellect or will of God is fully actualized.

For Spinoza, God is the necessary cause of all things. All things by nature proceed from necessity. All things are predetermined by God, and for anything that exists, some effect must follow.

Spinoza argues that thought is one of the attributes of God (II, Prop. I). God can think an infinite number of things in an infinite number of ways. God’s infinite intellect comprehends all of God’s attributes.

According to Spinoza, God is the essence of substance. Thought and extension are attributes of God. Thus, God is the essence of thinking substance (i.e. mind) and of extended substance (i.e. body).

Substance is defined by Spinoza as a mode of being which implies necessary existence. God is infinite substance, and outside of God no other substance is possible. Thus, Spinoza’s philosophy is pantheistic, in that it claims that God is present in all things.

Spinoza argues that the human mind is a part of the infinite intellect of God (II, Prop. XI, Corollary). All ideas are present in the intellect of God. Ideas are true and adequate insofar as they refer to God. Ideas that logically follow from adequate ideas are also adequate. Ideas are false and inadequate insofar as they do not express the essence of God.

According to Spinoza, an idea is adequate and perfect insofar as it represents knowledge of the eternal and infinite essence of God. Spinoza says that, since the idea of anything actually existing must come from God, the human mind is capable of knowing God (II, Prop. XLV).

For Spinoza, the will cannot be separated from the intellect. There is no such thing as free will, because the human mind is determined in its willing by a cause other than itself. God’s will, which has no cause other than itself, reveals itself by necessity rather than by freedom. Thus, Spinoza explains that the will can only be a necessary cause of action, and not a free cause of action (I, Prop. XXXII).

Spinoza also argues that from any idea, an effect must necessarily follow. Insofar as an idea adequately refers to God, its effect is caused immediately by God. Insofar as an idea inadequately refers to God, its effect has intermediary causes and is not caused immediately by God.

[Gacalisa]

you know, peopel that are surrounded by the religion, and have good parents that try to implement the religion or any good doing, take it for granted, and dont really try to understand the religion.

but those that are not surrounded by it grave the religion more.

Just my opinion.