Who really benefits from Qabiil advocacy?

[Sir-Luggoyo]

In my humble opinion, a staunch qabiilist is someone who lacks self confidence, weak and always in need and seeking support from others, someone with no self esteem and integrity.

When you can depend on yourself, independent from need for others, can stand on your own feet, qabiil is not a biggie in your vocabulary.

You will never see a rich man (wealthy or intellectual) propagating for his qabiil, visiting his clansmen's homes, advocating for the unity of the clan, on the contrary, he sees it as a burden since his abode is populated round the year and his provisions depleted by kin and relatives from the countryside, whom, coincidently he never knew and met before, actually he is sick and tired of his clan and if there is a way out, he would've ejected himself and family from that confined hellhole.

When someone is materially and intellectaully deficient, he seeks the nearest clansman for support, for him, the clan is his bedrock, his backbone, his means of survival, he will advocate (in a very loud voice) for the unity of the clan (he ain't that stupid as to miss an opportunity to safeguard his means of existence), he will praise the clan, compose and recite specific poems in praise of their bravery, hospitality and generosity, to solicit for meager handouts. He is literally a vampire, living on and sukking the sweat and blood of other hardworking individuals, who are either too polite to tell him to fukk off, or simply love to be praised, begged or look important on the expenses of this leach.

Now, the question is, when you are in the West, working your asses off, relying on yourself, earning your livelihood, why would you lose your sleep on qabiil affairs? If nothing else, they will dig your pockets for qaaraan contribution, which you have no clue where it will end up.

[X.Playa]

What are you basing your theory on? Any historical refrence?. This the problem with most Somalis , they would argue a case with absloute nill evidence.

I can tell you 90% of all rich Somalis from 1940's never left their qabiil and in fact contribute it and paid for arms during a tribal civil war, and i can back that up.

See the problem with you minorities you will hate anything that will expose your volunerbilities espcially exclusivity be it regionlism , ethnicity , tribe , or linguestic grouping or color in the case of USA , South Africa etc.

In Somalia a nomadic society with no particular fixed borders the clan is the social unifier. I see no problem at all with "qabiil" as opposed to "qablisim".

What exactly wrong with aiding and helping your 15th or 20'th cousin, as opposed perfering to help a distant unrealted group, as that is the basic of Somali tribes.

Even th Quran states " Al Aqaaribu Awlaa Bil Macruuf" meaning " a kin is perfered for according favoures or good deeds" If charity begins at home then the home of Somalis is their particular qabiil. For others in the case of the West is their particular region, for some its their particular dialect, etc, tribalism or exclusiveities should not be limited on the Somali case, in the rest of Africa and specially Ethopia its ethnicity, Oromos, Tigre, Amharas, Uraagis etc.

Now for a minority their nightmare becomes the tribe, for they are a minorities , they are disadvantaged to begin with due to their numbers hence its natural for them to abhore tribal politics, ethnic politics, regionlism and even religion.

The AU, the EU, The Arab League, The Francphon Common wealth , World Tarde Ogranization are nothing but the extension of modern political, ethinical and economical exlusivities, you just being a Somali will not see beyond your case. But the entire world is made up of US Vs them exclusive clubs.

[Sir-Luggoyo]

[quote="X.Playa"]

What exactly wrong with aiding and helping your 15th or 20'th cousin, as opposed perfering to help a distant unrealted group, as that is the basic of Somali tribes.

.[/quote]



XPlaya,

The above statement is a clear evidence and ratifies my assumption. Apparently "Help" is all you think of. Let's go back to my original question which was "Who benefits from qabiil?" Now, when it comes to help, who benefits from it? Is it the giver or the receiver? Obviously the receiver, you have unwittingly put the noose around your neck and I will twist it so hard that you won't know what hit you.

Being a leach, a blood-sukking one at that, you don't see the fact that the giver is burdened by the constant need and the "Begger" state of the recipient. The fact that you never were a giver but a recipient, blinds you about the ordeal the giver goes through. No man can satisfy the need of others and it's not a pre-ordained task for him to quench and moisten the ever parched lips of the leaching avid clanist, he sees him as a dead weight and a nuisance, and if it wasn't for the stupid clan system, he would've enjoyed the fruits of his labour without interference from the likes of you.

As for the recipient, he is intelectually handicapped and materially barren, he has no self dignity and would take drastic measures to survive and revive every old trick in the book that preaches "Help" your 20th cousin first (like you stated above), just because he can't do it on his own and he doesn't have what it takes to make it, he resorts to cheap propaganda of qabiil superiority and clan solidarity to score a meal and a marduuf of Qaad.

You can defend for all you like but it just sheds more light on your sorry and vampirical state. Keep on shooting yourself on the foot.

[kambuli]

Definitely tribalism is the mother of evilÂ… Do not look anywhere elseÂ… Look at Somalia and the situation it is nowÂ… People always use tribalism as a scapegoat for their shortcomings. There is a story a friend of mine told me a while ago;

Once there was a competition on Quran reciting. Shiikh Cali Suufi, Alla Yaa Raxmu was chair of the competition. The competition was to read the quran in Tajwiid… As we all know Somalis never learned the tajwiid…One very well known Shiekh from the Hawd Area happened to fail in that competition…. Instead of accepting his failure the Sheikh angrily whispered on Shiekh Cali Suufi’s ear “ I know I did not fail, but you failed me because you know that I hail from so and so clan who took the Geel by force (Dhacay) from your clan…

[Lord Diplock]

For those of us living in the west, we dont need the help of our qabil/s. the sooner this cancer is dealt with individually the better for all of us. I mean we're in a situation whereby one could literally be neighbour
to a somali family (and after he finds out their qabil) just ignore them for good, what has the world came to?

only warlords, 'politician's, losers, the unemployed, the qaat chewers benefit from qabil bashing, we should aspire for something else, those of us with something between our ears.

I have resign from qabil bashing myself as from this minute. I have just asked myself:what is the point? I cant convince someone here how 'great', blah, blah my qabil is.

[kambuli]

Lord, quote "I have resign from qabil bashing myself as from this minute. "

But you were never a Qabiil basher I don't remember seeing you bashing a qabiil....

[Lord Diplock]

[quote="kambuli"]Lord, quote "I have resign from qabil bashing myself as from this minute. "

But you were never a Qabiil basher I don't remember seeing you bashing a qabiil....[/quote]

or rather mentioning my qabil name too many times. I cant be a qabil basher, I am sijui for God sake

[Sir-Luggoyo]

Kambuli


Anyone you see invoking the qabiil name is a sour loser who cloakes himself with the qabiil gown to look important, what he can't achieve as an individual, he compensates with the qabiil name. Why would a young, healthy, educated human being at this time and age, seek assistance from his clan is beyond me, I just don't get it.

In the good old days, qabiil was used but not misused, it was a force to reckon with against transgressors, it was used for good of the clan and maybe beyond, the poor were helped in times of drought and need, they were assisted when sick, when getting married, they were defended from outside enemy, the collaboration was beneficial but not distructive, but in later times, it became the ticket for distruction and abuse, something used for evil purposes, something to suppress and oppress, this wasn't what the "Founding Fathers" had in mind, it's contrast to what they strove for.


And here we have a grown asss man encouraging ppl to become leaches and sukk your clansmen dry in the name of qabiil.

[Demure]

Sir Lugooyo, I always thought so, Qabiil continues to nourish because of the provider/dependent relationship. My father once told me, even before the war, in the average Somali household of several individuals (including relatives/or Clan relatives) there is only one or two people working and the rest are full dependents. The dependent then never tries to work hard for anything, why would he? he has a well to do kinsman to support him. The mentality that you always have a back up needs to stop, one has to learn to solely rely on himself and earn his living.

That's one possible reason, it's still mainly affecting the ones back home. The Somalis in diaspora, I think have a different ailment called "Stuck in 1990-1991 war" Some might have undergone a horrendous experience, others might have just heard of these terrible acts from their Clan and neither is willing to let go and move on from that point, their whole lives came to a comple halt at that time. They harbor strong hate and teach it to their kids. That fact that they are on wellfare and think they're still going back to Somalia tomorrow doesn't help either. So yes indeed, it all comes down to socio-economic factors which is ignored at the moment.

[Sir-Luggoyo]

[quote="Demure"]Sir Lugooyo, I always thought so, Qabiil continues to nourish because of the provider/dependent relationship. My father once told me, even before the war, in the average Somali household of several individuals (including relatives/or Clan relatives) there is only one or two people working and the rest are full dependents. The dependent then never tries to work hard for anything, why would he? he has a well to do kinsman to support him. The mentality that you always have a back up needs to stop, one has to learn to solely rely on himself and earn his living.

That's one possible reason, it's still mainly affecting the ones back home. The Somalis in diaspora, I think have a different ailment called "Stuck in 1990-1991 war" Some might have undergone a horrendous experience, others might have just heard of these terrible acts from their Clan and neither is willing to let go and move on from that point, their whole lives came to a comple halt at that time. They harbor strong hate and teach it to their kids. That fact that they are on wellfare and think they're still going back to Somalia tomorrow doesn't help either. So yes indeed, it all comes down to socio-economic factors which is ignored at the moment.[/quote]



Dem,

You nailed it sister. That is exactly the mentality we should strife to erase and create a self-reliant, motivated and hard working community. It's unIslamic and inhumane to leach on someone and live like a parasite for all your life.

[X.Playa]

Still no decent rebattle, the old usless mantra and political correctness, demure a woman and sir lugooyo a Bajun are the last people who should debate the roots of the somali tribalism...

Let me aske you something, are you willing to feed all the handicaps somalis , homless, meantly sick who are been fed by their kins, are you going to support all the somalis orphans and widows who are been fed through the old 'Qaadhaan system" where in the bush herds are collected for the unlucky and poor and in our modern time money, are you going to marry the ugly wife of your dead kinsmen and adopt his babies and raise him as your own. Are you willing to pay for both ways compensation for/against a committed injury to save people from revenge and tribal war.....??

I have seen a woman in a town in Somalia giving a bath to an old crazy man, she would go and ftech him from the gutter , strip him , and give him a bath just like she gives her babies.... and that was when Somalia was Somalia and there was a state.... Why she had to take care of her own, because of KINSHIP , now whats wrong with that???? and every Somali clan did the same for their poor , handicap, etc.

A Bajuun will call that woman and that old man both leaches, this monkey things tribalism is just the gun and bullets and warlords. His understanding of Somali Social Welfare so called tribalism is diluted with the modern evils of politics and centrel goverments. Somali tribalism was that at its basic nature, only in 1960 when the modern state was imposed on us Somalis did things get out of control, politics coupled with tribal compeitions for the state resource driven by a saw mouthed urban politicans truned tribalism into a monestor mechain. Somalis had fought along tribal lines for 800 years and never once was a woman been raped for tribal reasons, few times even 'inan la yaals' were killed

Why only after 1960 raping woman during tribal wars became a weapon??? if tribalism was the culprit why it didn't take place for 800 years??? I dare you to produce a single incident where 2 somali tribes fought and they killled childern and raped women before..the brith of the Somali state.??

What the fockkk Doese Demure hollier then holly knows about the politics of Somali tribes and its deep social welfare, and what a Baajuun fishirmen knows...

These monnkies confuse 'qabiilisam' with kinship...

unless you are willing to provide a system that will cover all that, somalis will live with what they had, their old SOCIAL WELFARE system.....and that is KINSHIP

[Sir-Luggoyo]

XPlaya,


You failed miderably again. No matter what you call and how much you cloak, it always comes back to your beggar nature.

When I asked the question "Who benefits from Qabiil?", I wasn't looking for a history lesson and "who benefit"ted" from it, rather, I was talking about the current situation and the present day affairs. Eventhough you were advocating for the continuation of the trend in your former post, you try to wiggle in the latter, trying to masquerade as if I was interested in what happened ions back. In that aspect, I never neglected to mention the benefits of qabiil in the good old days, you are just parroting what I have already stressed and we call that "War la qabaa xiiso ma leh"

Dude, I was talking about the current misuse of qabil and the leaching nature of the likes of you who try to live off others, I am advocating for self-reliance, restoration of dignity and earning your livelihood in an honest means and living a meaningful life. As Demure mentioned, we all know that in every Somali household, where two members are bread winners, there are about seven or eight able bodied young men/women who leach on the working two, and not taking their responsibilities for the simple fact that their 20th cousin will carry their dead weight and spoon-feed them for the rest of their miserable lives. How do you think do the bread winners feel when they come home sweating and tired and see the six or seven guzzling their food and drinks without contributing anything or putting anything on the tabel. Since you were never in those men's shoes, I will tell you, they are choking inside, they are on the verge of bursting, wringing their necks and snuff the lives out of them, that is what they feel inside, but can they say that out loud? of course not, why? Because the fukken fabric of the society is built on sukking others blood and it is seen as normal, if they dare oppose it, they risk being branded as "Tol Laawe"...................... but what do you know about it? you have been living off others for the lst 40+ years

[Freakishly_Free]

Sir Luggoyo-I don't want to mess up your thread but i just wanted to tell you that i'm a big fan of yours. A groupie, if u will.

[X.Playa]

You haven't answered a single question and you are trying to confine the issue on a single question? who benefits from Qabiil?? just to control the debate within your own narrow agenda. Tell me who benefits from Protecting the right of minorities and women?? certainly not the majority and not the men, but yet the status quo is perpetuated and today its a just natural, few women or few minorities like you would call that reversed discrimination a discriminations why because you are the majore benefactor.

Your silly insinuations and agenda to label the mainstream somalis ( Darood, Isaaq , Hawiye, Dir) a tribalist parasites or leaches is an old minority view, Gibilcad, Baajuuns, Bantus, Banadari and Barwanis these folks who shun the mainstream somali culture and isolate themselves in a separate ethnic cacoocns (their own little tribalist enclaves) yet whine about the Somalis long cultural exclusive tribalism. Your status quo as a minority given a power that is not reflected in your numbers is NORMAL and just to you, but you argue otherwise for others , you want to play the Affirmative Action principles and yet deny the mainstream even to support one another, so much that you are arguing for how should they spend their money. I couldn't care less if you buy fish or nets for all your Baajuuns in Kismaayo islands or crack a cooconut and bask under a palm tree drinking its milk. What i wouldn't tolerate is you a Baajuun a non somali with a hidden agenda eminating from your displacements from Kismaayo during the civil war to call the shots on what is favoritism or tribalism based on your narrow view.

Who benefits from the state and the states status quo?? I'd tell you who benefited from the Somali states, you the minorities and women, and thats is another form of State sponsored tribalism. When the states euqates a Baajuun or a Banadari or a Barawaani and by law garauntee them repersenations despite the fact they never earned it, thats another tribalism and thats is more meancing then a voluntary good well gesture or good well deeds accorded to a poor kin by a better off kin on his own free well , which you nor the state have the right to question. What right you have to tell another man on how to spend his wealth , or fortune. Do you have the right to tell the Arabs not to give their wealth and money to Lebonen , because its Arab tribalism?? no Baajuun , you do not.

Your entire view of Somali political culture is limited to the day when 2 Mooryaans armed with thick fluffy flip flop cut your fishing net and cracked a coocnut on your skull and displaced you to Kenya. Your view and experince of Somali politics is as limited as such. So you balme all your misfortune on political curopprtin couple with tribalist politicians a gansters. The people you accusing of tribalism are the least tribalist, the likes of Yalxo, Qanyare, Indho Cade , Bare Hiiraale are the least tribalist , reason they failed to benefit their own as you claim.

You argue within a narrow parameters, you are confined by your own agenda and by your own hate for what you think is the cause of your suffering, but you are confused.

Few days ago the courts in Muqudisho gave your ilk a status higher then that of major somali clan by claiming you are not mere 4.5 but a full 1 despite the fact that all somali minorites be it a Bantu or be an Arab number less then the Gedabursi tribe or Xawaadle tribe. You see no problem in that because to you its equality , because you are at the receving end.

[1nemansquad]

^^ don't like this airhead Xplaya but he made some legitimate points